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Mn Usa Freco Kids State 2018; Back to Rochester
Topic Started: Aug 21 2017, 08:15 PM (24,814 Views)
Turd Bag
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Was doing some calendering today for folkstyle, and thought I might as well put free / greco kids state on my calendar. Much to my dismay it is on the MN USA website as being back at Rochester again after a two year run at Monticello. I liked it at Monticello for a change. We go to enough tournaments in Rochester. Can't some of the love be spread around the State a little more? Anyone know what the thought process was here?
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gopherfan149
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Agree Monticello was better
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Karenj1225
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Monticello was way more central and with NP in Rochester a lot makes a ton of sence, maybe it was a venue size or scheduling issue, RTC has a ton of space.
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Iowan@heart
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This seems to get discussed every year. Cities bid on the event - similar to the process of selecting venues for the Olympics. The event organizers look at the bids and select the one that they like the best. The key aspects are facilities, finances and hospitality (availability and average cost of hotel rooms and restaurant options). Rochester goes after wrestling events very aggressively.

http://www.postbulletin.com/playbook/youth_sports/amateur-update-minnesota-usa-wrestling-returns-to-mayo-civic-center/article_43d8788b-3ac6-5205-bf55-3bc479d93a14.html
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larson311
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It's a bummer, Monticello was pretty well centralized based on MN population. Rochester facilities are super nice I agree, but I'm not looking forward to the 6 1/2 hour drive 3 times next year. 4 1/2 hours vs 6 1/2 is a world of difference when you're hauling a bunch of kids around.
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DOUG
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I would like to see us use US BANK so they could work out any bugs before the 2020 NCAA Nationals. I know wishful thinking. Overall I think if you want to use the term State it should be as centralized as possible just my two cents see you in Rochester.

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Iowan@heart
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If you would like to see it held somewhere else, get a group of people together and work with that city/facility to put together a bid for the event. That's how this process works - sporting events don't seek out specific locations, it's the other way around.
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larson311
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I'd love to have it up here, but I know that's not the right thing to do either as everyone else in the twin cities and southern MN would be upset. It would be best for some of us northern clubs to get on the MN USA board so we can have a voice. I can't complain too much as I haven't done anything to change it either so for now these are just my opinions. USA wrestling is a non-profit organization geared toward creating interest and participation according to their mission statement. The meeting minutes don't state anything about who was highest bidder, the only reasons stated were better internet access in Rochester and they didn't see the increase in numbers in Monticello they were hoping for.

Here are the freestyle numbers
2017 Monticello 548
2016 Monticello 584
2015 Rochester 505
2014 Rochester 530
2013 Rochester 485

I don't know how others feel, but even a small increase in numbers seems worth it to me. My interest is in growing the sport and I will still be there, but I know others will not.
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DOUG
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I think if the goal is for the sport to grow then any growth is great. Maybe Monticello was not the best venue so hopefully MN/USA whose goal is to grow sport continues to search for better venues. Like I have always said if my son wants to be there I will drive no problem but it is not the guys who are willing to do that MN/USA needs to cater to if they want the Sport to grow. Just my two cents and I have never been on the Board or anything like that so again just my opinion.
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larson311
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Well said DOUG, that's my feeling as well. Myself, other northern MN people, or even people interested in growing the sport that would like a more central venue can also do our part by contacting MN USA board members about our concern.
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Tiny Tornado
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Karenj1225
Aug 22 2017, 06:13 AM
Monticello was way more central and with NP in Rochester a lot makes a ton of sence, maybe it was a venue size or scheduling issue, RTC has a ton of space.
it's not at the RTC- it will be back at the Civic Center
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Karenj1225
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Yuk no parking there! And they frisk everyone for food and drinks down to a strip search!
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Iowan@heart
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I am from Rochester but am not a fan of having so many events here. I agree that the ideal solution would be to have events at more varied locations. However, many of you still don't seem to understand how this works. I've been on the USA wrestling board, worked in the Hotel industry and have run a number of national events. Cities compete for the rights to host events - events do not (usually) pick out cities in which to be located.

Saying that the state event should be moved around the state for the good of the sport is like saying that the state high school wrestling title should be moved around the state for same reason.

My guess is if the costs, facilities, logistics, and financial incentives were the same, the event would be more centrally located.
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Northwest
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Iowan@heart
Aug 22 2017, 06:42 AM
This seems to get discussed every year. Cities bid on the event - similar to the process of selecting venues for the Olympics. The event organizers look at the bids and select the one that they like the best. The key aspects are facilities, finances and hospitality (availability and average cost of hotel rooms and restaurant options). Rochester goes after wrestling events very aggressively.

http://www.postbulletin.com/playbook/youth_sports/amateur-update-minnesota-usa-wrestling-returns-to-mayo-civic-center/article_43d8788b-3ac6-5205-bf55-3bc479d93a14.html
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Northwest
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Comparing a non-profit organization who's mission is to advance participation in the sport to the Olympic bidding process is just plain silly. So, how many CITIES are bidding each year? How many CITIES have an active Sports Commission? How many CITIES have as much lodging as Rochester and are always looking to fill the hotels? How many Cities throw in so many free rooms to the organizers? How about a novel idea such surveying the membership and asking them what their priorities are?
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kidwrestlingcoach
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I'm sure the MN-USA people are nothing like the IOC. We are seeing cities like Boston retracting their Olympic bid. The idea is to promote the sport. Monticello was great for a lot of metro and Northern wrestlers. It was in a school building, which might cause more headache than MN-USA is willing deal with and the City of Monticello might not have much influence on that.

I know I'm ahead nearly $500 because I didn't have to drive to and stay over night in Rochester. I'd rather see that money go to wrestling than Hilton or Mariott, but it's easy to say that now. If we paid $300/wrestler US Bank stadium could maybe work.
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Turd Bag
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Iowan@heart
Aug 23 2017, 08:00 AM
...

Saying that the state event should be moved around the state for the good of the sport is like saying that the state high school wrestling title should be moved around the state for same reason.

...
No it is not. Rochester is in the extreme southeastern portion of the state and there is not a heavy population density (relatively speaking) in that area. There is a much higher population density in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area, and its suburbs, and stretching up I-94 to Monticello. The area I describe is also more centrally located.

State HS is held in St. Paul, which is part of the highest density of population in the State. The Twin Cities are not parallel with Rochester. Perhaps your point would be more true if State HS was held in Mankato, Alexandria, or Brainerd / Baxter every year.
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Turd Bag
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Iowan@heart
Aug 23 2017, 08:00 AM
...

My guess is if the costs, facilities, logistics, and financial incentives were the same, the event would be more centrally located.
Perhaps that is true. I note, however, that the three people listed in the minutes at "working on moving Kids Freestyle and Greco State back in Rochester for 2018" are from the Rochester area or southern MN, generally. They still may feel this is for the best of the sport. Perhaps more representation outside of the south is needed.

"If you don't like it, you should get on the Board," some of you will say. That isn't in the cards for me. Thanks to all that do donate their time to MN USA Wrestling. I feel a little guilty ruffling some feathers on this.
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Iowan@heart
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Turd Bag
Aug 23 2017, 12:50 PM
Iowan@heart
Aug 23 2017, 08:00 AM
...

Saying that the state event should be moved around the state for the good of the sport is like saying that the state high school wrestling title should be moved around the state for same reason.

...
No it is not. Rochester is in the extreme southeastern portion of the state and there is not a heavy population density (relatively speaking) in that area. There is a much higher population density in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area, and its suburbs, and stretching up I-94 to Monticello. The area I describe is also more centrally located.

State HS is held in St. Paul, which is part of the highest density of population in the State. The Twin Cities are not parallel with Rochester. Perhaps your point would be more true if State HS was held in Mankato, Alexandria, or Brainerd / Baxter every year.
You're still trying to argue that it makes sense to have the tournament more centrally located. I don't think anyone disagrees with that idea. My point is that cities compete for these events and the best overall package wins.

If you really do feel strongly about having it moved there are three options:

1. Work with the city where you think it should be located to put together a more competitive bid. In the case of Rochester a non-profit was started to raise money to buy wrestling mats, clocks, and tournament stuff to make it easier for events to get up and running.

2. Get on the MN/USA board and lobby from within to make the location a higher priority. If the location results in added expenses, then help decide what gets cut or how much fees increase.

3. Send e-mails to the MN/USA board expressing your opinion (and willingness to possibly pay a little more to have it located elsewhere).
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Iowan@heart
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Turd Bag
Aug 23 2017, 12:50 PM
Iowan@heart
Aug 23 2017, 08:00 AM
...

Saying that the state event should be moved around the state for the good of the sport is like saying that the state high school wrestling title should be moved around the state for same reason.

...
No it is not. Rochester is in the extreme southeastern portion of the state and there is not a heavy population density (relatively speaking) in that area. There is a much higher population density in the Minneapolis / St. Paul area, and its suburbs, and stretching up I-94 to Monticello. The area I describe is also more centrally located.

State HS is held in St. Paul, which is part of the highest density of population in the State. The Twin Cities are not parallel with Rochester. Perhaps your point would be more true if State HS was held in Mankato, Alexandria, or Brainerd / Baxter every year.
Actually I was (sarcastically) talking about the trophy itself (not the tournament). I think we'd all agree that it would be better for the sport of wrestling if the Minnesota High School Wrestling Class AAA State Championship trophy rotated around the state instead of leaving it up to a competition that often results in it ending up in Apple Valley.
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larson311
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Tough to argue with that one

1. Work with the city where you think it should be located to put together a more competitive bid. In the case of Rochester a non-profit was started to raise money to buy wrestling mats, clocks, and tournament stuff to make it easier for events to get up and running.
Edited by larson311, Aug 24 2017, 07:28 AM.
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gopherfan149
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So to be clear, it is hosted at the city with the best bid for the non profit, not the city that draws the larger amount of participants?
Edited by gopherfan149, Aug 24 2017, 08:55 AM.
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Turd Bag
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I wish more cities bid on this. These tournaments are sizable cash infusions to the host city. Good marketing and work by Rochester to get these tourneys. If they are buying mats and the like, that seems like a difficult thing for other cities to catch up to.
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WrestleMe
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In case anyone is wondering, the World Championships are going on..........
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Turd Bag
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Who wants to talk about World Championships when you can have a discussion about a topic that comes up annually for a tournament that no more than 550 kids 12 and under attend and occurs in 8 months?
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Iowan@heart
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gopherfan149
Aug 24 2017, 08:55 AM
So to be clear, it is hosted at the city with the best bid for the non profit, not the city that draws the larger amount of participants?
Yes, exactly. I've worked for hotels and the Clash, Christmas Tournament, and USA Wrestling and they send out requests for bids indicating what they need to have a successful tournament and then review the bids that come in to determine which one to select.

I think the move to Monticello was an attempt to see if they could get a significant bump in attendance. As someone pointed out earlier, there was an increase but not enough to justify the move.

One thing they do look at is overall cost of attendance including gas, hotels, event admission, and food. I know that when I followed my kids around for soccer tournaments, hotels were ridiculous in the cities and often inconvenient and even sometimes unavailable. For the state high school tournament this year my hotel was 40 minutes away and it took me almost an hour to find parking.
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gopherfan149
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Iowan@heart
Aug 24 2017, 02:33 PM
gopherfan149
Aug 24 2017, 08:55 AM
So to be clear, it is hosted at the city with the best bid for the non profit, not the city that draws the larger amount of participants?
Yes, exactly. I've worked for hotels and the Clash, Christmas Tournament, and USA Wrestling and they send out requests for bids indicating what they need to have a successful tournament and then review the bids that come in to determine which one to select.

I think the move to Monticello was an attempt to see if they could get a significant bump in attendance. As someone pointed out earlier, there was an increase but not enough to justify the move.

One thing they do look at is overall cost of attendance including gas, hotels, event admission, and food. I know that when I followed my kids around for soccer tournaments, hotels were ridiculous in the cities and often inconvenient and even sometimes unavailable. For the state high school tournament this year my hotel was 40 minutes away and it took me almost an hour to find parking.
I assure you hotels in Monticello are in line with Rochester price wise. As far as the state HS tournament it must have been because you booked late. I've been there over 20 years and never stayed more than 10-20 minutes away and there are plenty of parking ramps. If you are going again this year I'd recommend booking earlier. I booked my place last week.

PM me if you want to know a close place to stay, but drivable each day.

A two year trial showed approx 50-60 more wrestlers which is better than what you get in Rochester. I'd bet it would increase more over a 6-8 year trial.
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Iowan@heart
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gopherfan149
Aug 24 2017, 03:17 PM
I assure you hotels in Monticello are in line with Rochester price wise. As far as the state HS tournament it must have been because you booked late. I've been there over 20 years and never stayed more than 10-20 minutes away and there are plenty of parking ramps. If you are going again this year I'd recommend booking earlier. I booked my place last week.

PM me if you want to know a close place to stay, but drivable each day.

A two year trial showed approx 50-60 more wrestlers which is better than what you get in Rochester. I'd bet it would increase more over a 6-8 year trial.
I can't comment on Monticello hotel prices but I wouldn't be surprised if they are similarly priced or even cheaper. I did notice that Expedia lists 3 hotels in Monticello versus over 50 options in Rochester.

I do have an issue with your comment about "booking earlier". It drives me nuts when people suggest that approach. Booking earlier may help me, but it just pushes everyone else down the line so some other wrestling fan ends up in the hotel that I was in. Jumping to the front of the line, doesn't change the number of people in the line.

In my specific case, I was asked to do play-by-play late in the process so I volunteered to take a day off work on short notice and couldn't book earlier. When I had kids involved, I booked as early as possible (but not so early as to jinx anything).

Regarding parking, there were NO parking ramps available by mid-morning on Friday. I've never had issues on Saturday.

Oh, and don't use the term "you" when referring to Rochester. I don't have anything to do with the tournament and no-longer have kids involved in the youth level. People were asking questions about how the process works and I was trying to help explain it.
Edited by Iowan@heart, Aug 25 2017, 06:27 AM.
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gopherfan149
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Iowan@heart
Aug 25 2017, 06:26 AM
gopherfan149
Aug 24 2017, 03:17 PM
I assure you hotels in Monticello are in line with Rochester price wise. As far as the state HS tournament it must have been because you booked late. I've been there over 20 years and never stayed more than 10-20 minutes away and there are plenty of parking ramps. If you are going again this year I'd recommend booking earlier. I booked my place last week.

PM me if you want to know a close place to stay, but drivable each day.

A two year trial showed approx 50-60 more wrestlers which is better than what you get in Rochester. I'd bet it would increase more over a 6-8 year trial.
I can't comment on Monticello hotel prices but I wouldn't be surprised if they are similarly priced or even cheaper. I did notice that Expedia lists 3 hotels in Monticello versus over 50 options in Rochester.

I do have an issue with your comment about "booking earlier". It drives me nuts when people suggest that approach. Booking earlier may help me, but it just pushes everyone else down the line so some other wrestling fan ends up in the hotel that I was in. Jumping to the front of the line, doesn't change the number of people in the line.

In my specific case, I was asked to do play-by-play late in the process so I volunteered to take a day off work on short notice and couldn't book earlier. When I had kids involved, I booked as early as possible (but not so early as to jinx anything).

Regarding parking, there were NO parking ramps available by mid-morning on Friday. I've never had issues on Saturday.

Oh, and don't use the term "you" when referring to Rochester. I don't have anything to do with the tournament and no-longer have kids involved in the youth level. People were asking questions about how the process works and I was trying to help explain it.
I meant you in a general term. Did not mean you specifically, I should have said "one"

I stand by my comment of book earlier however. You cannot expect to get exactly what you want if you wait too long.

As far as hotels in Monticello I'd bet 50% or more of the wrestlers/familes can stay at home for that location and do not need 50 hotels to choose from. Also Monticello is close enough to other towns where there are plenty of places to choose from.
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Northwest
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Saying that 50% of the families probably did not need lodging for the Monticello venue is accurate and it was the primary reason why Monticello was chosen. The participation numbers jumped by around 10% and since the overall trend in participation in freestyle and greco is down, a 10% increase is not too shabby. Forcing families to spend a ton of money in lodging and travel so the organization can make more money on the event is not putting your memberships interest first.
Again, a simple survey of the membership would answer this question and put it to rest. I would go so far as to say the membership would have been much happier with an additional $5.00 entry fee to stay in Monticello, perhaps that would have covered those free rooms Rochester provides for the event organizers.
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