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Mn Usa Freco Kids State 2018; Back to Rochester
Topic Started: Aug 21 2017, 08:15 PM (22,885 Views)
Gonzaga1603
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sitoutking
Sep 7 2017, 02:37 PM
I would hope any increase would be good, considering its a new venue in Monticello and year two was over Mother's Day it was impressive. I am struggling with the idea since it's further away and more people stay in hotels its good to have it in Rochester. Seems like an odd reason to me.
More people staying in hotels generates more revenue for the community (and hotels) and thus they are able to offer more incentives to the event to have it there. (such as discounted rooms, shuttles etc.)
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Turd Bag
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It will be interesting to see what the numbers are this year. I don't think it will help that there are only 5 weeks from NYWA weekend to FRECO kids + cadets State this year (one less than last year). I know that not everyone does NYWA. No biggy for the die-hards, but kind of tough for those that aren't.
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sitoutking
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Gonzaga1603
Sep 7 2017, 02:41 PM
sitoutking
Sep 7 2017, 02:37 PM
I would hope any increase would be good, considering its a new venue in Monticello and year two was over Mother's Day it was impressive. I am struggling with the idea since it's further away and more people stay in hotels its good to have it in Rochester. Seems like an odd reason to me.
More people staying in hotels generates more revenue for the community (and hotels) and thus they are able to offer more incentives to the event to have it there. (such as discounted rooms, shuttles etc.)
I fully understand the numbers and why it brings in more money, I struggle with the logic behind using that intentionally to place a tourney there. Not very rationale, or ethical in my opinion.
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Iowan@heart
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gopherfan149
Sep 7 2017, 02:37 PM
How much worth of free hotels are we talking?

Sure would be fun to see the bids
The free rooms are typically offered at a ratio to revenue generating rooms ranging from 1 for every 30 paid nights to 1:40. The rooms are typically used for mat and pairing officials who are volunteering to work the event. For the MN/USA tournament, I would guess that it's somewhere around 10 rooms (assuming that fans stay in the advertised "host" hotels.)

If you just want to see the general format of a hotel proposal, I uploaded one from 2005 here.

A bid from a city would include some number of these hotel proposals plus details (contract) on the facility rental.
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HEW
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There must be a reason for almost every sport having big tournaments in Rochester. Could it be that they do a better job, better venue, better hotel availability, better cost vs profit, experienced setup/tear down crew, mats on site for the event, score boards on site, and most Volunteers live in that area, etc... HOW dare MNUSA go for that location!? Build it like they did in Central MN and they will come!
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larson311
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Where does Monticello get all the equipment for Gopher State Nationals? Is that all brought in by Midwest Wrestling Tour?
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momof3boys
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Sep 7 2017, 11:22 AM
I think we're having a communication issue here. I don't personally have any stake in where the MN/USA tournament is held. I have driven all over the state and the country to volunteer at USA wrestling events for over 30 years.

I really take offense to Momof3boys' comment about being a paid lobbyist. NO ONE is getting paid on the side, under the table or anywhere else to have the event held in Rochester (other than the Rochester Amateur Sports Commission as that is their job).

I didn't directly address momof3boys's specific arguments because I don't generally disagree with them. It is more expensive to travel as a family to an event a long distance away than to one closer to home. How could anyone argue with that?

(I guess I could argue with the comment on "safety" as the two cities have similar crime rates (about 1/4th that of the twin cities), but that was probably more in reference to overnight travel than a comment on Rochester).

I've been trying to explain how the process works and what people can do to try to get the event moved to their preferred location.

So let me try to restate the key points for the argument for a more centralized location for MN/USA State Tournament:

1. Keeping the overall individual cost affordable needs to be a higher priority for MN/USA than the cost to the organization when they evaluate locations.

  • The net cost of participation for the entire pool of MN/USA wrestlers is higher when the tournament is held in Rochester as opposed to a central location.

  • MN/USA should be viewed as a family event so the total cost of a family travel and lodging needs to be taken into consideration.

2. A more centralized location is key in increasing participation in the event which is key to growing the sport.

Did I miss anything? If not, that is the argument that people need to be making with board members.

Geez, Iowan, I mention that the state folkstyle event was not a place for a 2 year old because of the mass congestion and you respond with crime statistics from different cities. You take offense that I sarcastically ask if you are a lobbyist but you accuse me of taking a "family vacation" in Rochester. These are elementary age tournaments, not the Olympics, how many rooms rented so an organization can maximize their profits is ridiculous. Mn/usa is there to serve the membership by providing affordable events for the membership, not by providing events that make the most money for the organization. Mn/usa is a non-profit 501 (c) 3 and there are other ways to raise money other than on the backs of young families. As it is today, these youth events are funding much of the organization. I have researched several
youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
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Gonzaga1603
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sitoutking
Sep 8 2017, 06:52 AM
Gonzaga1603
Sep 7 2017, 02:41 PM
sitoutking
Sep 7 2017, 02:37 PM
I would hope any increase would be good, considering its a new venue in Monticello and year two was over Mother's Day it was impressive. I am struggling with the idea since it's further away and more people stay in hotels its good to have it in Rochester. Seems like an odd reason to me.
More people staying in hotels generates more revenue for the community (and hotels) and thus they are able to offer more incentives to the event to have it there. (such as discounted rooms, shuttles etc.)
I fully understand the numbers and why it brings in more money, I struggle with the logic behind using that intentionally to place a tourney there. Not very rationale, or ethical in my opinion.
Why is that not rationale or ethical? Its literally what every major event does ever when selecting where to hold their events.

If they can keep cost down for themselves they can keep cost down for their customers.
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Gonzaga1603
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momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
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Sep 7 2017, 11:22 AM
I think we're having a communication issue here. I don't personally have any stake in where the MN/USA tournament is held. I have driven all over the state and the country to volunteer at USA wrestling events for over 30 years.

I really take offense to Momof3boys' comment about being a paid lobbyist. NO ONE is getting paid on the side, under the table or anywhere else to have the event held in Rochester (other than the Rochester Amateur Sports Commission as that is their job).

I didn't directly address momof3boys's specific arguments because I don't generally disagree with them. It is more expensive to travel as a family to an event a long distance away than to one closer to home. How could anyone argue with that?

(I guess I could argue with the comment on "safety" as the two cities have similar crime rates (about 1/4th that of the twin cities), but that was probably more in reference to overnight travel than a comment on Rochester).

I've been trying to explain how the process works and what people can do to try to get the event moved to their preferred location.

So let me try to restate the key points for the argument for a more centralized location for MN/USA State Tournament:

1. Keeping the overall individual cost affordable needs to be a higher priority for MN/USA than the cost to the organization when they evaluate locations.

  • The net cost of participation for the entire pool of MN/USA wrestlers is higher when the tournament is held in Rochester as opposed to a central location.

  • MN/USA should be viewed as a family event so the total cost of a family travel and lodging needs to be taken into consideration.

2. A more centralized location is key in increasing participation in the event which is key to growing the sport.

Did I miss anything? If not, that is the argument that people need to be making with board members.

Geez, Iowan, I mention that the state folkstyle event was not a place for a 2 year old because of the mass congestion and you respond with crime statistics from different cities. You take offense that I sarcastically ask if you are a lobbyist but you accuse me of taking a "family vacation" in Rochester. These are elementary age tournaments, not the Olympics, how many rooms rented so an organization can maximize their profits is ridiculous. Mn/usa is there to serve the membership by providing affordable events for the membership, not by providing events that make the most money for the organization. Mn/usa is a non-profit 501 (c) 3 and there are other ways to raise money other than on the backs of young families. As it is today, these youth events are funding much of the organization. I have researched several
youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
"How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities?"

Do you know one who is offering? I assume MN/USA isnt turning money away.
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Iowan@heart
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sitoutking
Sep 8 2017, 06:52 AM
I fully understand the numbers and why it brings in more money, I struggle with the logic behind using that intentionally to place a tourney there. Not very rationale, or ethical in my opinion.
The total cost of an event to an organization is one of many factors that event organizers consider when selecting a site. I don't think the fact that one site may have more room rebates associated with the overall cost makes it somehow unethical.

I do understand your concern however that this expense is not shared evenly by all attendees. Regardless of where an event is held, there will be some subset of participants who have to travel. You'd like to see this number minimized as much as possible.
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Iowan@heart
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momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
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sitoutking
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Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
According to the board minutes of MNUSA from May, I believe Jordan Holm will be taking this issue on. What's interesting, in the minutes at least, this issue of Jordan taking up the job of creating advertising revenue took up way more time than moving the state tournament back to Rochester. Maybe Jordan can raise enough revenue so MNUSA can have their state tournaments somewhere closer to central?

One more quick point- I don't think some of you realize how non centralized Rochester is. Look at a map and get back to me.
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gopherfan149
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Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 07:44 AM
gopherfan149
Sep 7 2017, 02:37 PM
How much worth of free hotels are we talking?

Sure would be fun to see the bids
The free rooms are typically offered at a ratio to revenue generating rooms ranging from 1 for every 30 paid nights to 1:40. The rooms are typically used for mat and pairing officials who are volunteering to work the event. For the MN/USA tournament, I would guess that it's somewhere around 10 rooms (assuming that fans stay in the advertised "host" hotels.)

If you just want to see the general format of a hotel proposal, I uploaded one from 2005 here.

A bid from a city would include some number of these hotel proposals plus details (contract) on the facility rental.
Simple math then.

10 rooms x $200/room (which is high) x 2 nights = $4000.00 for MnUsa free rooms.

In two years at Monticello they averaged 566 kids for freestyle. Lets say half wrestled greco. Thats 849 entry fees.

$4000.00 / 849 = $4.72 increase. I think most families could afford to pay that over what they spend driving and staying in Rochester. Those who help out and need free rooms still get free rooms. Attendance is higher than Rochester and possibly $400-$1000 cheaper per family. And I did all this math in 5 minutes.

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gopherfan149
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Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
I already proved the hotel room theory is BS. Now lets do facilities.

What is the cost for Facilities only in Monticello

What is the cost for Facilities only in Rochester

Lets get some factual information out here.
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Tiny Tornado
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sitoutking
Sep 8 2017, 08:37 AM
Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
According to the board minutes of MNUSA from May, I believe Jordan Holm will be taking this issue on. What's interesting, in the minutes at least, this issue of Jordan taking up the job of creating advertising revenue took up way more time than moving the state tournament back to Rochester. Maybe Jordan can raise enough revenue so MNUSA can have their state tournaments somewhere closer to central?

One more quick point- I don't think some of you realize how non centralized Rochester is. Look at a map and get back to me.
If I'm not mistaken- Jordan's efforts at fundraising/getting corporate sponshorships, etc are all to do with the Mn Storm Senior program, and the Minnesota Training Center.....unless there's been a new change I'm not aware of....
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larson311
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gopherfan149
Sep 8 2017, 12:50 PM
Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
I already proved the hotel room theory is BS. Now lets do facilities.

What is the cost for Facilities only in Monticello

What is the cost for Facilities only in Rochester

Lets get some factual information out here.
I think I read in the notes Monticello was $10,000..not sure on Rochester..
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momof3boys
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Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
Perhaps I would if I had an area code of 507 but since I live in the boondocks according to some, I doubt it would work too well. The 507 area code has all the clout and has for quite some time. I ask that you and others look up the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation and note that they have 8 directors on the board. These 8 directors are from the 8 districts that are determined by geography. That type of set up spreads around the voting throughout the state and helps prevent voting blocks by geography. Different areas of the state has different needs and ideas.
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Tiny Tornado
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where someone lives has no bearing on whether one can contribute suggestions/ideas/input on any topic...Mn/Usa's board meetings are almost all by conference call.....you could live in International Falls, and still be able to add you input.....

as far as "clout"....there are opportunites every several years for others to run for a position on the board, and run against an existing member for their position...
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Sep 8 2017, 05:53 PM.
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momof3boys
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It should not matter but it does in this case. There have been plenty that have contributed suggestions/ideas/input and it has not mattered in the location of events. The only sit down meetings appear to be in Rochester or Augsburg.
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ERIC CREESE
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momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 05:18 PM
Perhaps I would if I had an area code of 507 but since I live in the boondocks according to some, I doubt it would work too well. The 507 area code has all the clout and has for quite some time. I ask that you and others look up the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation and note that they have 8 directors on the board. These 8 directors are from the 8 districts that are determined by geography. That type of set up spreads around the voting throughout the state and helps prevent voting blocks by geography. Different areas of the state has different needs and ideas.
Great point bringing Wisconsin into the fold. Guess where ALL their state tournament's are held? In Madison which is in Southern Wisconsin. I guess them Door County and Cumberland folks don't have anyany problems with it in Madison.

And the WWF???? They nixed all of their national dual teams a couple years ago.

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Iowan@heart
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momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 05:18 PM
Iowan@heart
Sep 8 2017, 08:28 AM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 08:00 AM
I have researched several youth programs throughout the country and I see more sponsors for youth clubs than I do for Mn/usa. Look at the website, 2 sponsors are listed, 1 bar and 1 tavern. How about a corporate sponsorship or two from the Twin Cities? These are things that could and should be done, USA wrestling is a great organization and the message is marketable. Providing AFFORDABLE options for youth in Mn. is something most corporations would be proud to support.
Sounds like you're offering to help with fundraising for MN/USA - I am sure that they would appreciate the assistance. If you could land a couple corporate sponsorships, then the state tournament could probably be held anywhere. A more direct approach would be to find sponsors in the Monticello area that would offset the cost of the Monticello facility and have it included as part of their next proposal. It would be hard for MN/USA to turn down a proposal that was both cheaper and more central.
Perhaps I would if I had an area code of 507 but since I live in the boondocks according to some, I doubt it would work too well. The 507 area code has all the clout and has for quite some time. I ask that you and others look up the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation and note that they have 8 directors on the board. These 8 directors are from the 8 districts that are determined by geography. That type of set up spreads around the voting throughout the state and helps prevent voting blocks by geography. Different areas of the state has different needs and ideas.
What does your area code have to do with calling and writing potential corporate sponsors? You lost me there.

You don't need anyone's permission to raise money to sponsor the event in Monticello.
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Northwest
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ERIC CREESE
Sep 8 2017, 07:33 PM
momof3boys
Sep 8 2017, 05:18 PM
Perhaps I would if I had an area code of 507 but since I live in the boondocks according to some, I doubt it would work too well. The 507 area code has all the clout and has for quite some time. I ask that you and others look up the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation and note that they have 8 directors on the board. These 8 directors are from the 8 districts that are determined by geography. That type of set up spreads around the voting throughout the state and helps prevent voting blocks by geography. Different areas of the state has different needs and ideas.
Great point bringing Wisconsin into the fold. Guess where ALL their state tournament's are held? In Madison which is in Southern Wisconsin. I guess them Door County and Cumberland folks don't have anyany problems with it in Madison.

And the WWF???? They nixed all of their national dual teams a couple years ago.

Simple research will tell you that the geographic center of Wisconsin is Pittsville.
Pittsville to Madison is 119 miles. The population center in Wisconsin is Markesan.
Markesan to Madison is 60 miles.
The geographic center of Mn. is approx. Brainerd. Brainerd to Rochester is 217 miles. The population center of Mn. is Rogers. Rogers to Rochester is 111 miles. Rochester is almost double the distance from the geographic and population center as compared to Madison.
Monticello is only 15 miles from the population center in Minnesota.
Not an accurate comparison at all..
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ERIC CREESE
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Keep it in Rochester the next 3 years. After that have it in Detroit Lakes for all I care.
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sitoutking
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ERIC CREESE
Sep 9 2017, 12:56 PM
Keep it in Rochester the next 3 years. After that have it in Detroit Lakes for all I care.
You can't handle anyone disagreeing with you can you? Monticello made sense. Rochester doesn't. What's so hard to get? Why all the hate for the northern guys? They're just asking MNUSA to throw a bone and not go to the extreme corner of the state.
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ERIC CREESE
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Actually I could careless if anyone agrees with me. I said Montecello was fine until you all started throwing temper tantrums, calling people greedy and whatever conspiracy or negative nancy complaint you could come up with. Its a horse a piece for me, but since it angers you its in Rochester, that's good enough for me.

FWIW I don't hate anyone.
Edited by ERIC CREESE, Sep 9 2017, 09:48 PM.
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sitoutking
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Interesting facts:
Rochester is closer to Omaha and Chicago than it is to some of its northern clubs!
It is not anger at Rochester so much as it is anger at the obtuseness of even considering Rochester as a site.

PS there has been one really angry person on here throwing temper tantrums, otherwise fairly constructive entertaining posts
Edited by sitoutking, Sep 10 2017, 07:07 AM.
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larson311
Sep 8 2017, 07:52 AM
Where does Monticello get all the equipment for Gopher State Nationals? Is that all brought in by Midwest Wrestling Tour?
The Monticello wrestling booster club and the school district own 10 mats.
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kidwrestlingcoach
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Metro parents and coaches should be flattered. The southern parents and coaches don't see us at the social events in hotels if we drive from home each day of the event.
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fatback
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A big problem I see with holding the state tournament in Rochester is that it will affect the attendence for Northern Plains. Who wants to make that drive from up North two times and so close together. NOT ME and not many others from what night am hearing.
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huntfishwrestle
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Also, state Freco will be in a facility that cannot hold as many mats as UCR or Monticello.
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