Mshsl Bod Meeting

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Mshsl Bod Meeting
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 4 2018, 10:14 AM (7,873 Views)
Junior26	Jun 4 2018, 10:14 AM Post #1
Super Fan Posts: 148 Group: Die Hard Member #19,473 Joined: January 9, 2012	Quoted from @MSHSLjohn on Twitter: "Wrestling: have team and individual state tournaments run simultaneously (currently team competition Thursday, individuals Friday-Saturday), allow option of 12 weight classes instead of 14 for regular-season duals." "Region committee votes on wrestling recommendations... Individual/team state tourney matches held on same days: yes 88, no 42 12 weights: 65 yes, 92 no" "#mshsl board votes to allow two-year trial for wrestling teams to have option of going from 14 weight classes to 12 during regular-season dual competitions; 106 and 195 pounds will be eliminated in those cases." Edited by Junior26, Jun 4 2018, 10:16 AM.



Taz	Jun 4 2018, 10:48 AM Post #2
Fanatic Posts: 513 Group: Die Hard Member #19,120 Joined: November 12, 2011	For the state tourney question...Does it mean they will now have the individuals and team spread throughout the 3 days or was the yes vote to keep them on the same days as the last few years?



guillotine1	Jun 4 2018, 11:09 AM Post #3
Administrator Posts: 13,398 Group: Admin Member #1 Joined: December 1, 2004	John Millea (@MSHSLjohn) tweeted: Because there is a moratorium on changes to state tournament formats, proposal to seed 32 teams for b/g state basketball is tabled, as is recommendation to change format of team/individual state wrestling tournament. #mshsl So... no vote was taken by the MSHSL Board of Directors on the recommendation to change the state tournament format for wrestling at this meeting. also tweeted by @MSHSLjohn: #mshsl board votes to allow two-year trial for wrestling teams to have option of going from 14 weight classes to 12 during regular-season dual competitions; 106 and 195 pounds will be eliminated in those cases.



Junior26	Jun 4 2018, 11:12 AM Post #4
Super Fan Posts: 148 Group: Die Hard Member #19,473 Joined: January 9, 2012	The vote was a region committee recommendation to the board regarding the state tournament. As stated in the above quoted tweet, the board of directors did not vote on the issue this meeting.



MNRodent	Jun 4 2018, 03:01 PM Post #5
Fantastic Posts: 4,325 Group: Die Hard Member #2,515 Joined: February 22, 2005	The dropping from 14 to 12 for a dual would only be if both coaches agree, correct?



.75 Nelson	Jun 7 2018, 10:59 AM Post #6
Super Fan Posts: 436 Group: Die Hard Member #10,399 Joined: January 29, 2008	I believe that is correct. AND it is supposed to be agreed on at the time of contract, not the day of or week leading up to the dual.



Mykneehurts	Jun 7 2018, 01:25 PM Post #7
Member Posts: 10 Group: Member Member #21,390 Joined: October 15, 2013	It is my understanding from reading this thread that both coaches must agree with the reduction from 14 to 12 weight classes. Obvious question and scenario: one of the coaches will feel they have a dual meet advantage at 106 and thus, that coach will certainly not agree to remove this weight class. What are the chances this "trial run" will actually happen in duals if it requires the consent of both coaches?? Someone mentioned that the coaches must agree before signing the contract. What does this mean? The coaches must agree to this reduction in weight classes when they are setting their schedules for the upcoming year? Before the season starts for the dual? The day before the dual? At weigh ins? Just looking for clarification.



kgeiser	Jun 8 2018, 07:51 AM Post #8
Super Fan Posts: 180 Group: Die Hard Member #3,185 Joined: June 7, 2005	As coaches we have been told many times that it defaults to 12 weights if the coaches cannot agree. Unless your conference or sections votes to keep it at 14 for those duals.



areuready	Jun 8 2018, 09:36 AM Post #9
Wrestling Fan Posts: 82 Group: Die Hard Member #20,101 Joined: March 15, 2012	Is the option of 12 weights for all classes, A, AA, & AAA ?



ivanputzke	Jun 8 2018, 12:05 PM Post #10
Fanatic Posts: 880 Group: Die Hard Member #7,283 Joined: January 16, 2007	kgeiser Jun 8 2018, 07:51 AM As coaches we have been told many times that it defaults to 12 weights if the coaches cannot agree. Unless your conference or sections votes to keep it at 14 for those duals. That has to be changed. It's clumsy and is going to cause a lot of confusion.....not to mention more work for the AD's and Athletic Secretaries. And if something falls through the cracks all holy hell will break out.......schools would have to resend all contracts that have already been sent. Defaulting to 12 was something that seemed good on paper, but in reality wasn't good. Just like automatically getting rid of 106.



mndak	Jun 8 2018, 03:26 PM Post #11
Fantastic Posts: 4,007 Group: Die Hard Member #20,868 Joined: January 31, 2013	ivanputzke Jun 8 2018, 12:05 PM kgeiser Jun 8 2018, 07:51 AM As coaches we have been told many times that it defaults to 12 weights if the coaches cannot agree. Unless your conference or sections votes to keep it at 14 for those duals. That has to be changed. It's clumsy and is going to cause a lot of confusion.....not to mention more work for the AD's and Athletic Secretaries. And if something falls through the cracks all holy hell will break out.......schools would have to resend all contracts that have already been sent. Defaulting to 12 was something that seemed good on paper, but in reality wasn't good. Just like automatically getting rid of 106. Read the ruling after its official and schedule accordingly. I don't see how its confusing. The way I see it is 1/4 of schools may want the majority of their schedule to conist of 14 weight classes. 1/2 will run a mixed schedule to stay in line with conferences and/or their own needs. And 1/4 will seek a majority of 12 weight class events. Give it a chance and see how it goes.



ivanputzke	Jun 9 2018, 02:26 PM Post #12
Fanatic Posts: 880 Group: Die Hard Member #7,283 Joined: January 16, 2007	mndak Jun 8 2018, 03:26 PM ivanputzke Jun 8 2018, 12:05 PM kgeiser Jun 8 2018, 07:51 AM As coaches we have been told many times that it defaults to 12 weights if the coaches cannot agree. Unless your conference or sections votes to keep it at 14 for those duals. That has to be changed. It's clumsy and is going to cause a lot of confusion.....not to mention more work for the AD's and Athletic Secretaries. And if something falls through the cracks all holy hell will break out.......schools would have to resend all contracts that have already been sent. Defaulting to 12 was something that seemed good on paper, but in reality wasn't good. Just like automatically getting rid of 106. Read the ruling after its official and schedule accordingly. I don't see how its confusing. The way I see it is 1/4 of schools may want the majority of their schedule to conist of 14 weight classes. 1/2 will run a mixed schedule to stay in line with conferences and/or their own needs. And 1/4 will seek a majority of 12 weight class events. Give it a chance and see how it goes. Most of the schedules have already been done. Defaulting to 12 is dumb, it just is. Makes no sense. Defaulting to 14 is logical. If you want to schedule 12 weights then stipulate that in the contract and have at it. Makes no difference to me. But if teams can't agree then you should always default to 14. I think you're crazy if you think 1/4 teams will seek a majority of 12 weight classes when one of them is 106.



Swift	Jun 17 2018, 06:23 AM Post #13
Super Fan Posts: 423 Group: Die Hard Member #20,084 Joined: March 12, 2012	You will see ALOT of 12 weight duals. ALOT



Go47	Jun 17 2018, 10:25 AM Post #14
Fanatic Posts: 727 Group: Die Hard Member #17,777 Joined: November 20, 2010	Will many coaches agree to going 12 weight classes if they think getting a forfeit at 106 or 195 gives them a better chance of winning a dual? Not judging coaches, just curious how coaches will truly approach the new rule.



Swift	Jun 17 2018, 12:46 PM Post #15
Super Fan Posts: 423 Group: Die Hard Member #20,084 Joined: March 12, 2012	I wonder about seeding. If a team wins a dual of 12 weights in regular season but the other team would have won if they wrestled 14.



Iowan@heart	Jun 18 2018, 06:27 AM Post #16
Fantastic Posts: 9,738 Group: Fantastic Member #144 Joined: December 24, 2004	Swift Jun 17 2018, 12:46 PM I wonder about seeding. If a team wins a dual of 12 weights in regular season but the other team would have won if they wrestled 14. I doubt seeding with ever come into play. Any team that is in the top 10 has been building a 14 person roster and will compete with 14 wrestlers all season. I think where you will see the 12 wrestler roster used is with teams that routinely have 3-4 forfeits in a dual. The default of 12 weights is a bit of a head-scratcher though. I guess they are basically giving the choice to the weaker team. For AAA team ranking, I doubt that I'll even consider wins with 12-person rosters.



getyourpoints	Jun 18 2018, 09:06 PM Post #17
Super Fan Posts: 128 Group: Die Hard Member #24,273 Joined: April 13, 2017	Iowan@heart Jun 18 2018, 06:27 AM Swift Jun 17 2018, 12:46 PM I wonder about seeding. If a team wins a dual of 12 weights in regular season but the other team would have won if they wrestled 14. I doubt seeding with ever come into play. Any team that is in the top 10 has been building a 14 person roster and will compete with 14 wrestlers all season. I think where you will see the 12 wrestler roster used is with teams that routinely have 3-4 forfeits in a dual. The default of 12 weights is a bit of a head-scratcher though. I guess they are basically giving the choice to the weaker team. For AAA team ranking, I doubt that I'll even consider wins with 12-person rosters. Such a good point!!! I know teams that are fighting for state titles are going to build strong 14 man teams. I agree with you that the 12 man teams are more for a local use to keep struggling teams competitive in a dual setting only. Will elite wrestlers on teams that choose to downsize to 12 weights open enroll out to teams that choose or are able to be more competitive with 14 man teams?



Iowan@heart	Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM Post #18
Fantastic Posts: 9,738 Group: Fantastic Member #144 Joined: December 24, 2004	I can't imagine anyone transferring to wrestle on a 14 person squad -- especially when it probably won't be publicly known ahead of time which teams are opting for the 12 wrestler line-up. If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive.



Happydance23	Jun 19 2018, 07:55 AM Post #19
Super Fan Posts: 216 Group: Die Hard Member #24,371 Joined: September 14, 2017	It will do very little to make duals competitive....106 and 195 are not the problem.



areuready	Jun 19 2018, 04:34 PM Post #20
Wrestling Fan Posts: 82 Group: Die Hard Member #20,101 Joined: March 15, 2012	Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM I can't imagine anyone transferring to wrestle on a 14 person squad -- especially when it probably won't be publicly known ahead of time which teams are opting for the 12 wrestler line-up. If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. It also could make the strong teams stronger by giving them more flexibility to bump great wrestlers up a weight, instead of them getting a forfeit. Will a 182lber be allowed to wrestle up to 220, if there's no 195 ?



skiptoops	Jun 19 2018, 07:43 PM Post #21
PIONEER Fan Posts: 940 Group: Die Hard Member #64 Joined: December 23, 2004	areuready Jun 19 2018, 04:34 PM Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM I can't imagine anyone transferring to wrestle on a 14 person squad -- especially when it probably won't be publicly known ahead of time which teams are opting for the 12 wrestler line-up. If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. It also could make the strong teams stronger by giving them more flexibility to bump great wrestlers up a weight, instead of them getting a forfeit. Will a 182lber be allowed to wrestle up to 220, if there's no 195 ? No you can only bump 1 weight. 182 will not be allowed to bump to 220.



Happydance23	Jun 19 2018, 08:02 PM Post #22
Super Fan Posts: 216 Group: Die Hard Member #24,371 Joined: September 14, 2017	But in 12 weight duals there is no 195 weight class. So they would be only bumping up 1.



CropDuster	Jun 19 2018, 08:12 PM Post #23
Posts: 4,024 Group: Fantastic Member #12,044 Joined: June 8, 2008	Happydance23 Jun 19 2018, 08:02 PM But in 12 weight duals there is no 195 weight class. So they would be only bumping up 1. 195 is just considered a double-forfeit. This is the way it was explained to a group of us during the winter, at least. No bumping 182 to 220.



swampdonkey	Jun 19 2018, 09:07 PM Post #24
Super Fan Posts: 160 Group: Die Hard Member #17,876 Joined: December 6, 2010	I like that change is being considered. That is a step in the right direction from my view point. I understand that we have to stay with the current weight classes vs. making new ones when dropping from 14-12. I just hate to see 106 eliminated. I officiate at the high school level and can tell you first hand from my experience that i see many more kids being weighed in as exhibition or alternates from 90lbs. to 115lbs then any other range of weights. While officiating is see that 106 is forfeited far less then the middle to upper weights. Yes, some of those kids are still young and need development but don't kid yourself.........there are some awfully talented 7&8th graders out there. More so then in years past. Lets see this play out and hope for some good feedback.



mndak	Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Post #25
Fantastic Posts: 4,007 Group: Die Hard Member #20,868 Joined: January 31, 2013	Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. I see it as reality. Just because you can fill a lineup it doesn't automatically mean you have higher quality individuals. If you have a full squad you still have the advantage with flexibility to create your strongest lineup and matchups against the smaller squad. It will be great to see a few of these struggling teams beat teams that can fill a 14 man roster.



Happydance23	Jun 19 2018, 09:35 PM Post #26
Super Fan Posts: 216 Group: Die Hard Member #24,371 Joined: September 14, 2017	mndak Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. I see it as reality. Just because you can fill a lineup it doesn't automatically mean you have higher quality individuals. If you have a full squad you still have the advantage with flexibility to create your strongest lineup and matchups against the smaller squad. It will be great to see a few of these struggling teams beat teams that can fill a 14 man roster. Or.....hows it going to be when these struggling teams have 106 and 195 but missing other weights? This will hurt as many if not more teams than it helps.



mndak	Jun 20 2018, 09:06 AM Post #27
Fantastic Posts: 4,007 Group: Die Hard Member #20,868 Joined: January 31, 2013	Happydance23 Jun 19 2018, 09:35 PM mndak Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. I see it as reality. Just because you can fill a lineup it doesn't automatically mean you have higher quality individuals. If you have a full squad you still have the advantage with flexibility to create your strongest lineup and matchups against the smaller squad. It will be great to see a few of these struggling teams beat teams that can fill a 14 man roster. Or.....hows it going to be when these struggling teams have 106 and 195 but missing other weights? This will hurt as many if not more teams than it helps. You are simplifying a complex issue to suite your argument. They may have other kids within the lineup they can move around to fill the holes. The reality is they have two less weights to fill for that dual. That alone allows them flexibility with the remaining 12 weights.



getyourpoints	Jun 20 2018, 09:27 AM Post #28
Super Fan Posts: 128 Group: Die Hard Member #24,273 Joined: April 13, 2017	mndak Jun 20 2018, 09:06 AM Happydance23 Jun 19 2018, 09:35 PM mndak Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. I see it as reality. Just because you can fill a lineup it doesn't automatically mean you have higher quality individuals. If you have a full squad you still have the advantage with flexibility to create your strongest lineup and matchups against the smaller squad. It will be great to see a few of these struggling teams beat teams that can fill a 14 man roster. Or.....hows it going to be when these struggling teams have 106 and 195 but missing other weights? This will hurt as many if not more teams than it helps. You are simplifying a complex issue to suite your argument. They may have other kids within the lineup they can move around to fill the holes. The reality is they have two less weights to fill for that dual. That alone allows them flexibility with the remaining 12 weights. This puts an advantage to teams that can�t develop a 195 pounder. I still don�t understand how you cut any weights let alone a college weight. As a father of a wrestler that will likely be a 195 pounder, he would bounce from any coaching staff that�s unable to develop big strong wrestlers.



Happydance23	Jun 20 2018, 10:19 AM Post #29
Super Fan Posts: 216 Group: Die Hard Member #24,371 Joined: September 14, 2017	mndak Jun 20 2018, 09:06 AM Happydance23 Jun 19 2018, 09:35 PM mndak Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Iowan@heart Jun 19 2018, 07:40 AM If anything, I do see it as an advantage to those squads struggling to fill a full line-up. It could be frustrating for some to lose to a team because they basically got two free open spots, but it should make some duals more competitive. I see it as reality. Just because you can fill a lineup it doesn't automatically mean you have higher quality individuals. If you have a full squad you still have the advantage with flexibility to create your strongest lineup and matchups against the smaller squad. It will be great to see a few of these struggling teams beat teams that can fill a 14 man roster. Or.....hows it going to be when these struggling teams have 106 and 195 but missing other weights? This will hurt as many if not more teams than it helps. You are simplifying a complex issue to suite your argument. They may have other kids within the lineup they can move around to fill the holes. The reality is they have two less weights to fill for that dual. That alone allows them flexibility with the remaining 12 weights. Thats a funny response....you think teams struggling to fill weights will automatically be able to move kids around. You know one of the most ff weights last year was 126....how does elimating those weights for teams that have 106 and 195 help 126? Or are you proposing everyone would have to bump up? That will be a great way to build your team and get less experienced wrestlers beat up so they love the sport.



MAHACA Mamma	Jun 20 2018, 10:49 AM Post #30
Super Fan Posts: 197 Group: Die Hard Member #23,897 Joined: November 14, 2016	Happydance23 Jun 20 2018, 10:19 AM mndak Jun 20 2018, 09:06 AM Happydance23 Jun 19 2018, 09:35 PM mndak Jun 19 2018, 09:19 PM Quoting limited to 4 levels deep Or.....hows it going to be when these struggling teams have 106 and 195 but missing other weights? This will hurt as many if not more teams than it helps. You are simplifying a complex issue to suite your argument. They may have other kids within the lineup they can move around to fill the holes. The reality is they have two less weights to fill for that dual. That alone allows them flexibility with the remaining 12 weights. Thats a funny response....you think teams struggling to fill weights will automatically be able to move kids around. You know one of the most ff weights last year was 126....how does elimating those weights for teams that have 106 and 195 help 126? Or are you proposing everyone would have to bump up? That will be a great way to build your team and get less experienced wrestlers beat up so they love the sport. Two completely different circumstances. 126 is forfeited to avoid an upperclassman stud. 195 is forfeited because there is nobody there.



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