getyourpoints

Jun 20 2018, 07:17 PM

So 126 is FF do to a undersized senior stud but that doesn’t happen at 195?? That theory has some serious holes in it.
At sectionals 195 wasn’t even close to the bottom of weight classes for participation.
As to FF to a 126 pounder I think is a silly idea, I watched schools through out 7th graders out to wrestle Patrick McKee and Real Woods a couple of the best 126 pounders in the nation. On the other hand I watched schools FF to Trey Rogers and Greg Kerkvliet even though they had freshman and sophomores at that weight.
Again I don’t want to see any weight classes cut but I expecially hate seeing a weight like 195 messed with knowing that it’s mostly seniors that will pay the price. 10-12 Year’s of hard work just discarded and disrespect because some wrestling coaches can’t develop upper weights in the weight rooms.
Bigger, faster and stronger should be the goal of every coach.

mndak

Jun 20 2018, 11:54 PM

getyourpoints

Jun 20 2018, 07:17 PM

So 126 is FF do to a undersized senior stud but that doesn’t happen at 195?? That theory has some serious holes in it.
At sectionals 195 wasn’t even close to the bottom of weight classes for participation.
As to FF to a 126 pounder I think is a silly idea, I watched schools through out 7th graders out to wrestle Patrick McKee and Real Woods a couple of the best 126 pounders in the nation. On the other hand I watched schools FF to Trey Rogers and Greg Kerkvliet even though they had freshman and sophomores at that weight.
Again I don’t want to see any weight classes cut but I expecially hate seeing a weight like 195 messed with knowing that it’s mostly seniors that will pay the price. 10-12 Year’s of hard work just discarded and disrespect because some wrestling coaches can’t develop upper weights in the weight rooms.
Bigger, faster and stronger should be the goal of every coach.

What?

Iowan@heart

Jun 21 2018, 12:43 PM

In AAA, it appeared that wrestlers in the 195 and 220 were practically interchangeable. That is, every time I looked to see how some stud 195 lber did, I'd see that he wrestled 220. There were only 2 schools that had ranked or notable guys at both 195 and 220 and I can't imagine either of them wrestling any 12-person duals

I tend to feel that this will have very little impact on anything this year, except possibly making a few duals a bit more interesting.

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 21 2018, 01:13 PM

Iowan@heart

Jun 21 2018, 12:43 PM

In AAA, it appeared that wrestlers in the 195 and 220 were practically interchangeable. That is, every time I looked to see how some stud 195 lber did, I'd see that he wrestled 220. There were only 2 schools that had ranked or notable guys at both 195 and 220 and I can't imagine either of them wrestling any 12-person duals

I tend to feel that this will have very little impact on anything this year, except possibly making a few duals a bit more interesting.

Exactly.

Those small studs will still get their matches. It may be during the JV portion of the dual... and probably against the same opponent they would have wrestled on varsity. The same may be said for the 195 pounders. If the other team has someone that weight, he'll get a JV match during the dual.

WHOMP NATION

Jun 21 2018, 01:56 PM

You are totally looking at this 106 thing the wrong way. I am not looking at it as a match by match situation. Look at it as a whole season development for THE wrestler. Majority of our ELITE wrestlers to come through Minnesota started at the lowest weights of 103 or 106. They spend their whole season battling kids who are the top kids at that weight in the state whether they are in 7th, 8th, 9th grade. Kids that age and that small don't have the option of "bumping up". Kid weighs 100lbs and is forced to move up to 113, he's giving up over 10% of his own weight. That's like telling your best 152 lber to bump up and wrestle the best 170 lbers in the state. And your option for them is, go wrestle JV? Yeah cause that's going to do them a lot of good going the whole season wrestling most likely 30 second matches. It's a wasted year of development.

Stop thinking about match by match and think about the development of the actual wrestlers as a whole. Putting kids in position to wrestle the best competition is what it's about. And as a STATE as a whole having those younger kids wrestling the very best matches is very important.

At 195 scenario, they actually have options. If you wrestle 195 you are that heavy and are very capable of putting on weight to wrestle that next weight, and if you're on the smaller side you have the option of cutting. Taking away 106 gives that young wrestler zero option. They can't pack muscle on at that age and their is no weight to "cut" to.

Your option for them is JV...

WHOMP NATION

Jun 21 2018, 01:56 PM

You are totally looking at this 106 thing the wrong way. I am not looking at it as a match by match situation. Look at it as a whole season development for THE wrestler. Majority of our ELITE wrestlers to come through Minnesota started at the lowest weights of 103 or 106. They spend their whole season battling kids who are the top kids at that weight in the state whether they are in 7th, 8th, 9th grade. Kids that age and that small don't have the option of "bumping up". Kid weighs 100lbs and is forced to move up to 113, he's giving up over 10% of his own weight. That's like telling your best 152 lber to bump up and wrestle the best 170 lbers in the state. And your option for them is, go wrestle JV? Yeah cause that's going to do them a lot of good going the whole season wrestling most likely 30 second matches. It's a wasted year of development.

Stop thinking about match by match and think about the development of the actual wrestlers as a whole. Putting kids in position to wrestle the best competition is what it's about. And as a STATE as a whole having those younger kids wrestling the very best matches is very important.

At 195 scenario, they actually have options. If you wrestle 195 you are that heavy and are very capable of putting on weight to wrestle that next weight, and if you're on the smaller side you have the option of cutting. Taking away 106 gives that young wrestler zero option. They can't pack muscle on at that age and their is no weight to "cut" to.

Your option for them is JV...

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 21 2018, 03:20 PM

Let me ask you this...

Lets say you are the parent of a stud 8th grade 106 wrestler. Would you rather your son get his arm raised via FF on varsity, or would you rather see him wrestle the best kid the other team has to offer as a JV match?

Your answer will determine whether you are looking out for your son's best interest, or your own.

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 21 2018, 03:20 PM

Let me ask you this...

Lets say you are the parent of a stud 8th grade 106 wrestler. Would you rather your son get his arm raised via FF on varsity, or would you rather see him wrestle the best kid the other team has to offer as a JV match?

Your answer will determine whether you are looking out for your son's best interest, or your own.

mndak

Jun 21 2018, 10:53 PM

A varsity spot is not given, it is not owned, and it shouldn't be taken for granted.

If you have a squad of 14 wrestlers, the ones affected by this new rule better get their butts in gear and make sure their coach doesn't have a reason to put them on jv for the 12 man duals.

There are many competitive matches every year at the j.v. level. I have witnessed numerous matches where I wonder how the heck is this kid not on Varsity. In a year or twos time they typically work their way into their team's lineup and are successful.

There isn't a single pathway to success, every team is built differently and every individual has their own challenges along the way.

getyourpoints

Jun 21 2018, 03:38 PM

Question if the other team has a good wrestler at that weight why would they need to cut the kids at 106?

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 22 2018, 05:51 AM

getyourpoints

Jun 21 2018, 03:38 PM

Question if the other team has a good wrestler at that weight why would they need to cut the kids at 106?

They wouldn't. That's the whole point of this proposal. If both teams have good wrestlers there, there will be a varsity match there.

What you narrow minded guys don't seem to understand is that this proposal will likely increase the number of matches each kid has every year, NOT decrease them. They may not all be on varsity, but who cares??? Development is development. A JV match is better than getting your hand raised via FF on varsity as far as development is concerned.

Again, if any of you would rather see your kid get a varsity FF than wrestle a JV match...then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Happydance23

Jun 21 2018, 05:32 PM

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 21 2018, 03:20 PM

Let me ask you this...

Lets say you are the parent of a stud 8th grade 106 wrestler. Would you rather your son get his arm raised via FF on varsity, or would you rather see him wrestle the best kid the other team has to offer as a JV match?

Your answer will determine whether you are looking out for your son's best interest, or your own.

I like how you add in "Your answer will determine whether you are looking out for your son's best interest, or your"......

It could be said your answer determines if your looking out for the sport in general or just hoping your team could make scores look closer. Are you looking to develop wrestlers.....or just make scores look closer. Cutting 106 and 195 will do that in SOME duals...but will hurt as many teams as it helps...and over all will hurt developing wrestlers.

Happydance23

Jun 22 2018, 06:13 AM

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 22 2018, 05:51 AM

getyourpoints

Jun 21 2018, 03:38 PM

Question if the other team has a good wrestler at that weight why would they need to cut the kids at 106?

They wouldn't. That's the whole point of this proposal. If both teams have good wrestlers there, there will be a varsity match there.

What you narrow minded guys don't seem to understand is that this proposal will likely increase the number of matches each kid has every year, NOT decrease them. They may not all be on varsity, but who cares??? Development is development. A JV match is better than getting your hand raised via FF on varsity as far as development is concerned.

Again, if any of you would rather see your kid get a varsity FF than wrestle a JV match...then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Again your wrong making blanket statements about what parents and coaches priorities are. This proposal wont magically create more matches like your claiming. It wont develop better wrestlers and it most likely wont change the out come of very many duals. What it does is punishes varsity caliber kids by taking away their opportunity to develop as wrestler. If your not going to wrestle the match on Varsity.....what makes you think there will be a match at jv??? Most likely not.....but if you have a kid at that weight....why not wrestle him on varsity??? Because one coach doesnt want to give up points????

Happydance23

Jun 22 2018, 06:13 AM

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 22 2018, 05:51 AM

getyourpoints

Jun 21 2018, 03:38 PM

Question if the other team has a good wrestler at that weight why would they need to cut the kids at 106?

They wouldn't. That's the whole point of this proposal. If both teams have good wrestlers there, there will be a varsity match there.

What you narrow minded guys don't seem to understand is that this proposal will likely increase the number of matches each kid has every year, NOT decrease them. They may not all be on varsity, but who cares??? Development is development. A JV match is better than getting your hand raised via FF on varsity as far as development is concerned.

Again, if any of you would rather see your kid get a varsity FF than wrestle a JV match...then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Again your wrong making blanket statements about what parents and coaches priorities are. This proposal wont magically create more matches like your claiming. It wont develop better wrestlers and it most likely wont change the out come of very many duals. What it does is punishes varsity caliber kids by taking away their opportunity to develop as wrestler. If your not going to wrestle the match on Varsity.....what makes you think there will be a match at jv??? Most likely not.....but if you have a kid at that weight....why not wrestle him on varsity??? Because one coach doesnt want to give up points????

Iowan@heart

Jun 22 2018, 06:36 AM

Happydance23

Jun 22 2018, 06:13 AM

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 22 2018, 05:51 AM

getyourpoints

Jun 21 2018, 03:38 PM

Question if the other team has a good wrestler at that weight why would they need to cut the kids at 106?

They wouldn't. That's the whole point of this proposal. If both teams have good wrestlers there, there will be a varsity match there.

What you narrow minded guys don't seem to understand is that this proposal will likely increase the number of matches each kid has every year, NOT decrease them. They may not all be on varsity, but who cares??? Development is development. A JV match is better than getting your hand raised via FF on varsity as far as development is concerned.

Again, if any of you would rather see your kid get a varsity FF than wrestle a JV match...then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Again your wrong making blanket statements about what parents and coaches priorities are. This proposal wont magically create more matches like your claiming. It wont develop better wrestlers and it most likely wont change the out come of very many duals. What it does is punishes varsity caliber kids by taking away their opportunity to develop as wrestler. If your not going to wrestle the match on Varsity.....what makes you think there will be a match at jv??? Most likely not.....but if you have a kid at that weight....why not wrestle him on varsity??? Because one coach doesnt want to give up points????

First, this isn't a mat-side decision. My understanding is that coaches need to make this call at the start of the season. Secondly, I would venture to guess that you'll never see a 12-wrestler dual where both teams have wrestlers that could fill those spots. That makes absolutely no sense.

This actually may allow the schools that, in the past, have co-op'd during the season to wrestle as two independent teams and actually give more wrestlers the opportunity to be on varsity. There was also a team in AAA a few years ago that dropped all their duals from their schedule because they didn't have enough guys. This rule might have allowed them to get in a few competitive duals that season.

I think the critics of this option are thinking that somehow top teams will try to use it to their advantage to win duals. This rule with have almost no impact on the top 20 or so teams in each class.

WHOMP NATION

Jun 21 2018, 01:56 PM

You are totally looking at this 106 thing the wrong way. I am not looking at it as a match by match situation. Look at it as a whole season development for THE wrestler. Majority of our ELITE wrestlers to come through Minnesota started at the lowest weights of 103 or 106. They spend their whole season battling kids who are the top kids at that weight in the state whether they are in 7th, 8th, 9th grade. Kids that age and that small don't have the option of "bumping up". Kid weighs 100lbs and is forced to move up to 113, he's giving up over 10% of his own weight. That's like telling your best 152 lber to bump up and wrestle the best 170 lbers in the state. And your option for them is, go wrestle JV? Yeah cause that's going to do them a lot of good going the whole season wrestling most likely 30 second matches. It's a wasted year of development.

Stop thinking about match by match and think about the development of the actual wrestlers as a whole. Putting kids in position to wrestle the best competition is what it's about. And as a STATE as a whole having those younger kids wrestling the very best matches is very important.

At 195 scenario, they actually have options. If you wrestle 195 you are that heavy and are very capable of putting on weight to wrestle that next weight, and if you're on the smaller side you have the option of cutting. Taking away 106 gives that young wrestler zero option. They can't pack muscle on at that age and their is no weight to "cut" to.

Your option for them is JV...

Happydance23

Jun 22 2018, 07:09 AM

Iowan@heart

Jun 22 2018, 06:36 AM

Happydance23

Jun 22 2018, 06:13 AM

MAHACA Mamma

Jun 22 2018, 05:51 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep

Again your wrong making blanket statements about what parents and coaches priorities are. This proposal wont magically create more matches like your claiming. It wont develop better wrestlers and it most likely wont change the out come of very many duals. What it does is punishes varsity caliber kids by taking away their opportunity to develop as wrestler. If your not going to wrestle the match on Varsity.....what makes you think there will be a match at jv??? Most likely not.....but if you have a kid at that weight....why not wrestle him on varsity??? Because one coach doesnt want to give up points????

First, this isn't a mat-side decision. My understanding is that coaches need to make this call at the start of the season. Secondly, I would venture to guess that you'll never see a 12-wrestler dual where both teams have wrestlers that could fill those spots. That makes absolutely no sense.

This actually may allow the schools that, in the past, have co-op'd during the season to wrestle as two independent teams and actually give more wrestlers the opportunity to be on varsity. There was also a team in AAA a few years ago that dropped all their duals from their schedule because they didn't have enough guys. This rule might have allowed them to get in a few competitive duals that season.

I think the critics of this option are thinking that somehow top teams will try to use it to their advantage to win duals. This rule with have almost no impact on the top 20 or so teams in each class.

So are we changing so the top 20 will only wrestle top 20 or will those who struggle dictate what the rest will do. This is a poorly thought out plan....randomly pulling 2 weight and thinking this helps the sport and/or Ff is short sighted.

For you that are so gung ho on this, let us know what team your from so we can watch how it affects your team....maybe it will change our minds.