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Apple Valley Freestyle; Nice Turnout!
Topic Started: Apr 13 2008, 09:43 AM (5,207 Views)
Dragon's Fire
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Great turnout of Kids! Had over 500 wrestlers!! Great experience for a couple of our boys! Thanks much! :D
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twigboy
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Found a singlet at the AV freestyle tournament. PM me and describe and it's yours.
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Tim Wussow
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Do freestyle refs get paid? and is common for a ref to just up and leave when his kid is done wrestling?
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cwillaert
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Tim Wussow
Apr 14 2008, 07:40 AM
Do freestyle refs get paid? and is common for a ref to just up and leave when his kid is done wrestling?

No, they don't get paid. I wouldn't say it's common but it happens. They are all volunteers. Every club should be providing volunteers (officials, pairers, table workers, etc) if they are going to a tournament.
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With Jr. state going on they were a bit short on refs.
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Tim Wussow
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Thanks, I pretty new to this. I can't gripe about them leaving when they are volunteers. Really it's nice to see people giving back to the sport. Thanks again.
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wrestlinkid_101
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Speaking of refs at this open 2 peewees were wrestilng and of course one of them lose and his mom ran out on the mat and punched the ref in the face
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987
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the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.
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matdawg82
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My take on this is we had 551 wrestlers, that's right around 1,800 matches, two incidents, both from the same club. One verbal, one physical.
Hmmmm.......


Regardless of what was said by both parties in the incident where the ref was punched/slapped, Regardless of location(wrestling touney,basketball game, playground,uptown) that behavior is never appropriate. Adults need to conduct themselves as adults.

If I could have a nickel for everytime my son did not receive the "right" call I'd be rich(Over 500 matches) and I have never had an altercation with a refferee.

On the positive side, there were brackets at this touney that would rival any State bracket, the wrestling was great. Schoolboy H and I each I believe had 5 wrestlers with V/JV experience. Many Novice and Midget brackets had multiple state placers. Thanks to everyone that helped make this touney a success!!

One other thing for every complaint we got on Saturday, we got 2 or 3 atta boy's, the "old vets" that have been around know what its like to get slammed and make the best of it. We had a great group of volunteers, all the clubs stepped up we had coaches reffing, older kids reffing, hats off to a couple of great kids, one from Orono and one from KM great job guys!!!
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TakeEm'Down
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Nice job with this tourney Apple Valley!!! Too bad things got out-of-hand with an out of control parent/coach. The behavior of this person actually frightened my son. It's unfortunate. Hopefully some good will come out of the incident. Her club can't possibly pleased with her behavior.
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matdawg82
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I'm am sorry your son was frightened, hopefully the rest of the day was good, and thanks, we really tried to make it a good day!!
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Chris Shiherlis
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987
Apr 15 2008, 06:27 PM
the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.

Uhh. Really?!?

The reality of things is if this woman who engaged the confrontation was not prepared for the consequences of her actions she should have kept her mouth shut.

If I had been the ref, after being struck, not only would I have taken her down in the most punishing way available but would then have proceeded to find her husband and teach them both a lesson. I would then have pressed charges because the push was clearly a defensive move as would have been a take down.

I don't care what the ref admitted to later. The person is a psycho and the poster child for how we do not want parents to act at meets.

It is pathetic you would even try to tilt this in her favor or implicate the ref.
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stmabooster
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987
Apr 15 2008, 06:27 PM
the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.

Excuse me? Where did most of this incident take place? My understanding was that a parent from the stands came out on the mat and confronted the ref, a volunteer by the way. Whatever happened after that should never have happened because the parent shouldn't have been on the mat in the first place.
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Chris Shiherlis
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stmabooster
Apr 16 2008, 01:57 PM
987
Apr 15 2008, 06:27 PM
the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.

Excuse me? Where did most of this incident take place? My understanding was that a parent from the stands came out on the mat and confronted the ref, a volunteer by the way. Whatever happened after that should never have happened because the parent shouldn't have been on the mat in the first place.

Exactly. I am stunned somebody would post something like this.

Absofreakinlutely stunned.

If there are people out there who will actually attempt to justify this kind of behavior at a kids tournament I think maybe the answer is we need to start hiring bouncers for tournaments.

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hockeymom
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I few years ago at a tourney we were at, a parent was so out of control the ref just up and left....Picked up his gear, didn't say a word and was out the back door.

Just about EVERY single tourney the refs are getting yelled at and confronted about something or another. If you just ask for clarification in a calm manner, no issues. I work tables alot and the abuse refs get is stunning. They are not even paid. No wonder it is tough to get new good refs to come out. Who wants to get blasted constantly? The are always beeing told "That was the worst call I have ever seen andn so on." I enjoy working tables because I get to know the refs and they have a very tough job. Do you honestly think they want to make a bad call?
9 times out of 10 the refs thank me for helping them by working a table. I should be the one thanking all the refs for reffing at these tourneys!....
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pazz7
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This was our first freestyle tournament, but luckily not our first tournament ever. If it had been, as stated earlier on this thread, I'm not sure that I would want my kids in a sport where behavior like this is happening in front of such young kids. We were in the other gym, so didn't see what happened. I do know when we went out to the concessions area, there were a few kids, probably aged about 6 or 7, who were saying "Did you see the fight?" I don't care what a ref may or may not have said, this parents actions were absolutely uncalled for. Hats off to the ones in charge that called the police. Although it is sad that it came to that, maybe these parents...and others like them, will start to understand that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. Hopefully, the club this parent belongs to, will do something about this. And other tournaments...stand up and do the right thing, like Apple Valley did, when ANY type of unacceptable behavior is happening. BOOT EM OUT!!!
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DDD
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3 police cars outside the building at 10:30 am......YIKES!
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wrestle22!
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i saw the police talking to her and later im 99% sure i saw her back in the gym. she did not get kicked out.
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wonderfromdownunder
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Great tournament a lot of kids. only gripe is concessions runnin out so early. looking forward to this weekend to see the great tournout.
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4THEBOYS
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Chris Shiherlis
Apr 16 2008, 01:07 PM
987
Apr 15 2008, 06:27 PM
the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.

Uhh. Really?!?

The reality of things is if this woman who engaged the confrontation was not prepared for the consequences of her actions she should have kept her mouth shut.

If I had been the ref, after being struck, not only would I have taken her down in the most punishing way available but would then have proceeded to find her husband and teach them both a lesson. I would then have pressed charges because the push was clearly a defensive move as would have been a take down.

I don't care what the ref admitted to later. The person is a psycho and the poster child for how we do not want parents to act at meets.

It is pathetic you would even try to tilt this in her favor or implicate the ref.

This group is a bunch of tough (rough) looking women from what it looks like takes a group of inner city kids to tournaments----We experienced them last year in Forest Lake---not good behavior at all----They only come out during freestyle is what I've seen, but really what scares me is what could happen if something escalated to even more at a tourney--SCARY!!!

What could be done to this group if more bullying happen's again, should USA step in?????
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heavyweightdad
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I wouldn't label the "Inner-City" kids. I have had the honor of taking a few of these kids with me to Natl tourneys etc. who don't have the resources/time/2 parents, whatever, to go on their own....They have been nothing but great!
I personally have seen significantly worse behavior from the "suburban have all's" parents.

I am sure the specific people/persons you are referring to are out of control, but lets not label where people are raised. Not everyone has a silver spoon.

If this specific group continues, they should not be allowed at ANY tourneys, period. Maybe a 3 strikes your out policy should be instilled at tourneys.
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trevorsmith
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wrestle22!
Apr 16 2008, 05:34 PM
i saw the police talking to her and later im 99% sure i saw her back in the gym. she did not get kicked out.


Not even kicked out?

Why was this person not arrested? What kind of signals are we sending our kids?
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HDPOLFOOTBASEWREST
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4THEBOYS
Apr 16 2008, 10:19 PM
Chris Shiherlis
Apr 16 2008, 01:07 PM
987
Apr 15 2008, 06:27 PM
the ref instigated most of what happened. He talked crap about her kid to get a rise out of her when they were arguing, when she got in his face he pushed her- then she hit him. He admitted it later, she just had to leave and he got to keep reffing the rest of the day.

Uhh. Really?!?

The reality of things is if this woman who engaged the confrontation was not prepared for the consequences of her actions she should have kept her mouth shut.

If I had been the ref, after being struck, not only would I have taken her down in the most punishing way available but would then have proceeded to find her husband and teach them both a lesson. I would then have pressed charges because the push was clearly a defensive move as would have been a take down.

I don't care what the ref admitted to later. The person is a psycho and the poster child for how we do not want parents to act at meets.

It is pathetic you would even try to tilt this in her favor or implicate the ref.

This group is a bunch of tough (rough) looking women from what it looks like takes a group of inner city kids to tournaments----We experienced them last year in Forest Lake---not good behavior at all----They only come out during freestyle is what I've seen, but really what scares me is what could happen if something escalated to even more at a tourney--SCARY!!!

What could be done to this group if more bullying happen's again, should USA step in?????

WOW this could open up a can of worms
the piranahas will be feeding on this !
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matdawg82
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The individual that actually did the hitting was removed, the police talked to several individuals about the incident.
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Chris Shiherlis
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matdawg82
Apr 17 2008, 07:58 AM
The individual that actually did the hitting was removed, the police talked to several individuals about the incident.

I certainly hope my post was not viewed as a slight to the people running the event. It was a great event and God knows you have enough to deal with without trying to handle some nut job parent.

Again, on topic, I feel the meet ran very well and there were some excellent matches.
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Chris Shiherlis
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4THEBOYS
Apr 16 2008, 10:19 PM
Quote:
 
This group is a bunch of tough (rough) looking women from what it looks like takes a group of inner city kids to tournaments----We experienced them last year in Forest Lake---not good behavior at all----They only come out during freestyle is what I've seen, but really what scares me is what could happen if something escalated to even more at a tourney--SCARY!!!

What could be done to this group if more bullying happen's again, should USA step in?????

Not being from around here I am always amused at how intimidated many Minnesotans are by people of color and/or lower socioeconomic status.

Trash comes in many different wrappers. This has nothing to do with race or socioeconomic status. You deal with somebody like this the same as anybody else. Quickly and decisively.

The reality of things is I know of a couple High Schools who basically have "bouncers" for lack of better terms. Former wrestles who now coach, etc. who have been appointed to step up in the event a parent or coach crosses the line.

They don't stand around and make it obvious, but they are there.

You can make all the announcements and have people sign all the documents you want but the truth of the matter is these incidents are fueled by frustration and emotion and there is very little you can do to anticipate who is going to do what.

I don't want to overreact here but I really think moving forward clubs need to give some consideration to appointing 2-3 members for crowd control.

Parents and coaches are not allowed on the mat, anyway so any attempt to get on there should be viewed as a relatively hostile act and handled in an appropriate, situation based, manner.

Protecting our kids and maintaing an environment where adults are required to act like adults should be the #1 priority.
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Chris Shiherlis
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Quote:
 
I wouldn't label the "Inner-City" kids. I have had the honor of taking a few of these kids with me to Natl tourneys etc. who don't have the resources/time/2 parents, whatever, to go on their own....They have been nothing but great!


Kudos to you for helping bring youth into the sport.

Quote:
 
I personally have seen significantly worse behavior from the "suburban have all's" parents.


This is the first incident where a ref was struck on the mat that comes to recent memory so I will have to take issue with that statement given the context in which it was made.

Quote:
 
I am sure the specific people/persons you are referring to are out of control, but lets not label where people are raised. Not everyone has a silver spoon.


Well stated.

Quote:
 
If this specific group continues, they should not be allowed at ANY tourneys, period. Maybe a 3 strikes your out policy should be instilled at tourneys. 


So, who is going to enforce this state wide and how do you spread the word? It's a logistical nightmare.

Additionally, what if someone is seriously injured on the 2nd strike? How may times do we let this happen?

Zero tolerance, my friend.

Again I am back to crowd control at meets and in response to what you have posted allowing individual tourneys to have the discretion to not allow individuals/clubs to attend later events based on prior conduct.
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heavyweightdad
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Chris Shiherlis
Apr 17 2008, 09:27 AM

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I personally have seen significantly worse behavior from the "suburban have all's" parents.


This is the first incident where a ref was struck on the mat that comes to recent memory so I will have to take issue with that statement given the context in which it was made.


Sadly I have seen MANY instances of refs being touched one way or the other, finger jabs, shoving, slapping, swearing... by both parents and kids.
I heard a 5 year old, no lie, F bomb a ref at Tulsa, he was DQed from the match.
I have also seen parents get in the face/finger jab other KIDS! I have wintessed MANY parents/coaches removed from events, but they are back the next week. Apologies rarely happen. And they all blame it on poor reffing etc. Well, I challenge anyone to become a ref. I wouldn't want the thankless job! You have to have a backbone of steel.
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Chris Shiherlis
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heavyweightdad
Apr 17 2008, 10:13 AM
Chris Shiherlis
Apr 17 2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:
 
I personally have seen significantly worse behavior from the "suburban have all's" parents.


This is the first incident where a ref was struck on the mat that comes to recent memory so I will have to take issue with that statement given the context in which it was made.


Sadly I have seen MANY instances of refs being touched one way or the other, finger jabs, shoving, slapping, swearing... by both parents and kids.
I heard a 5 year old, no lie, F bomb a ref at Tulsa, he was DQed from the match.
I have also seen parents get in the face/finger jab other KIDS! I have wintessed MANY parents/coaches removed from events, but they are back the next week. Apologies rarely happen. And they all blame it on poor reffing etc. Well, I challenge anyone to become a ref. I wouldn't want the thankless job! You have to have a backbone of steel.

Wow. In 4-5 years up here I have never seen anybody be physically acosted. I have watched verbal tirades, seen some remarkably poor sportsmanship and heard threats but I have never seen an official physically struck.

Gotta agree with you. The refs deserve our suppport and respect. Without them we have no tournaments and it is hard enough getting volunteers as it is.
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cwillaert
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Chris Shiherlis
Apr 17 2008, 10:53 AM
The refs deserve our suppport and respect. Without them we have no tournaments and it is hard enough getting volunteers as it is.

Just wanted to higlight that part of your post.
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