Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Guillotine Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

If you join our community, you'll be able to use many member-only features such as posting messages, customizing your profile, sending personal messages, voting in polls, and fewer ads.

Email forum@theguillotine.com to find out how to get an account.

If you're already a member please log in:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
What happened to all the freestyle refs?; Whats going on?
Topic Started: Apr 19 2008, 11:42 PM (1,637 Views)
powermad
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
It seems that it's getting harder and harder to find freestyle refs. Do we have a head official in this state? Is there clinics that go on? What has to happen? MNUSA needs to go and recruit refs.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
powermad
Apr 19 2008, 11:42 PM
It seems that it's getting harder and harder to find freestyle refs. Do we have a head official in this state? Is there clinics that go on? What has to happen? MNUSA needs to go and recruit refs.

The refs are probably there, but I would guess that clubs can't afford to pay them. Just a thought.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wrestlingfan
Member Avatar
Wrestling Fan
[ *  *  * ]
Many of the Mat Officials and Pairing Officials no longer have children wrestling...so they have other things going on during the season and choose not to attend tournaments every weekend. Clubs need to recruit volunteers to officiate.

Every Club should be providing AT LEAST 1 Mat Official, 1 Pairing Official and a couple of Tableworkers at every tournament that they attend. If EVERY Club did this, those people wouldn't have to work at every tournament, because there would be more than enough people to take turns. Also, there would be enough Mat Officials to do 3-man mechanics on every mat and alleviate some of the "bad calls" that people have been complaining about.

Registered Mat & Pairing Officials can get mileage reimbursement for working MN/USA Sanctioned Tournaments (they have to be registered with USWOA). They don't have to pay admission to tournaments, and they get fed at tournaments.

Have you ever volunteered at a wrestling tournament? People need to step up and volunteer. It's actually fun - and you get to meet a lot of great people.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
HDPOLFOOTBASEWREST
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
wrestlingfan
Apr 20 2008, 11:16 PM
Many of the Mat Officials and Pairing Officials no longer have children wrestling...so they have other things going on during the season and choose not to attend tournaments every weekend. Clubs need to recruit volunteers to officiate.

Every Club should be providing AT LEAST 1 Mat Official, 1 Pairing Official and a couple of Tableworkers at every tournament that they attend. If EVERY Club did this, those people wouldn't have to work at every tournament, because there would be more than enough people to take turns. Also, there would be enough Mat Officials to do 3-man mechanics on every mat and alleviate some of the "bad calls" that people have been complaining about.

Registered Mat & Pairing Officials can get mileage reimbursement for working MN/USA Sanctioned Tournaments (they have to be registered with USWOA). They don't have to pay admission to tournaments, and they get fed at tournaments.

Have you ever volunteered at a wrestling tournament? People need to step up and volunteer. It's actually fun - and you get to meet a lot of great people.

i would like to help how do i start the ball rolling?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wrestlingfan
Member Avatar
Wrestling Fan
[ *  *  * ]
If you are interested in becoming a Mat Official, you can talk to the head Mat Official at the next tournament you attend. They will have you work with an experienced Official. Also, you can contact Tom Kuisle - the MN/USA Mat Officials Director at 507-238-1669.

The Kuisle supplemental rule book is on the MN/USA web site on the Officials page: MN/USA Officials Page. It's a good resource.

If you are interested in becoming a Pairing Official, you can talk to the head Pairing Official at the next tournament you attend. They will have you work with an experienced Official. Also, you can contact Carrie Learn - the MN/USA Pairing Officials Director at 651-210-9547.

Contact info for all MN/USA Board Members is on the MN/USA web site.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
HDPOLFOOTBASEWREST
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
wrestlingfan
Apr 21 2008, 08:18 AM
If you are interested in becoming a Mat Official, you can talk to the head Mat Official at the next tournament you attend. They will have you work with an experienced Official. Also, you can contact Tom Kuisle - the MN/USA Mat Officials Director at 507-238-1669.

The Kuisle supplemental rule book is on the MN/USA web site on the Officials page: MN/USA Officials Page. It's a good resource.

If you are interested in becoming a Pairing Official, you can talk to the head Pairing Official at the next tournament you attend. They will have you work with an experienced Official. Also, you can contact Carrie Learn - the MN/USA Pairing Officials Director at 651-210-9547.

Contact info for all MN/USA Board Members is on the MN/USA web site.

What is a pairing official?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bschultz66
No Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
That is the cryptic job of figuring out who gets to wrestle who next and who actually wins the brackets :)

sounds like a job for an Owl who-who
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
powermad
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I agree with what everyone is saying. At Anoka, Coon Rapids had 2 refs, High Flyers had at least 3, Champlin had 1 or more, St Francis had 1, and Anoka had 2 dads, Jake Deitchler and 3 wrestlers that were wrestling that day. With reffing it looked like clubs were stepping up. I think the main problem is that we need to offer more reffing clinics. Back when I first started to ref Jim Mead and Bill Maresh had a clinic. With Bills kids wrestling situations so we all could call it the same way. My main point to this is we need to have refering clinics!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cwillaert
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
HDPOLFOOTBASEWREST
Apr 21 2008, 07:59 AM
i would like to help how do i start the ball rolling?

Email me and I'll get you going in the right direction.
cwillaert@mnusawrestling.org

wrestlingfan summed up most of what I'd tell you though. Actually he summed it all up. So forget emailing me, do what he said. :D But you can still email me if you have questions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
powermad
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I think he is somewhat correct but we still need to do situational wrestling. I have refed for about 7 years now.. but i call things differentially from what other people call it. If you just look at the book it dosen't show you what to do in all situations. The book also tells you: all the stops of a bout by injury without bleeding are penalized by 1 point to the opponent. What im trying to say is that all refs need to be on the same page!!! I was talking to a parent that was new to freestyle wrestling this weekend. He said that he watch 3 refs call the same move 3 different ways. But when you talk about that move to each other it sounds like you all did it right.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Blaine would have more volunteers and knowledgeable parents, if Coon Rapids wasn't stealing all of them.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TonyPerkis
No Avatar
Wrestling Fan
[ *  *  * ]
I ate them....ALIVE.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Iowan@heart
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I've been a freestyle/Greco official for 25 years now and have to admit that I haven't done any tournaments yet this year. When I looked around at the other officials on the mats last year, there were virtually no "new" officials.

There are a few reasons why officials drop out - or just quit officiating.

- Some officials only work when they have kids wrestling. They leave the sport when their kids graduate or quit freestyle. Actually it's easier to ref when you don't have kids involved. There are less distractions and you can keep your mind on the match you're officiating.

- Freestyle wrestling is fast and the rules aren't trivial. It is not easy to walk on the mat and officiate a tense fast-paced match. I remember once at a national tournament sitting in a room watching a match on a VCR and the officials couldn't agree on the scoring even watching the match repeatedly in slow motion. Add to that the fact that the rules change almost every year and the interpretations can change multiple times during a season, it becomes a very challenging activity.

- Parents and coaches can be brutal on officials and especially new officials. I remember working 8 hours at a tournament here in Minnesota and having a (well-respected) coach come up and criticize me very vocally in front of a crowd of people regarding one very close call that had no impact on the match. The next weekend, I just stayed at home.

- Officiating is a huge time commitment. Giving up a full Saturday or a whole weekend is a big deal. No one gets paid - which is fine, but I used to have to hire a babysitter to watch my kids while I worked tournaments. Now when you look at the cost of gas, it can be an expensive hobby. Usually tournaments do feed the officials, but a hotdog isn't exactly the nutrition needed to keep your energy and focus at their optimal level.

We need a lot more young (16-25) officials who can be the backbone of the officiating infrastructure over the next 10-15 years. Minnesota has a great core of outstanding officials that are more than willing to take new people under their wing and help them ease into the sport. If you have any interest at all, follow the suggestions mentioned in earlier posts to get involved. My suggestion would be to not jump right on to a mat the first time out. Try to work with an experienced official as a judge or just sit next to the judge and ask him to talk you through some matches as they happen.

One more suggestion, I was getting "dressed down" by a head official in Vegas one year and a veteran official walked over and whispered to me "Just call what you see". It's probably the best advice I've ever received - oh, that and to always stay in a good position on the mat.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I don't think the "push out rule" should be active on half or quarter mats.
Freestyle has just turned into a sumo wrestling match. It's asinine.

Maybe we should be looking for more sumo wrestling refs. That would make more sense.

I understand the push rule on a full mat, but quarter mats? Come on.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
powermad
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I would like to see the passivity come back.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
WrestlingDad
Member Avatar
Super Fan
[ *  *  *  * ]
thegambler
Apr 22 2008, 12:10 PM
Blaine would have more volunteers and knowledgeable parents, if Coon Rapids wasn't stealing all of them.

thegambler
So what is the Blaine program doing to stop it?
Do the have a freestyle club?
I beleive they loose wrestlers to Coon Rapids, Anoka, & Spring Lake Park / St. Anthony Village.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
WrestlingDad
Apr 22 2008, 08:40 PM
So what is the Blaine program doing to stop it?
Do they have a freestyle club?
I beleive they loose wrestlers to Coon Rapids, Anoka, & Spring Lake Park / St. Anthony Village.

Blaine has a Freestyle program, a strong youth program, coaches, and good numbers. If any Blaine Wrestlers are going to Spring Lake Park or Anoka for freestyle only, then those parents certainly are NOT getting involved with the wrestling program at Blaine enough to know that Blaine has a freestyle program.

Blaine doesn't lose wrestlers to Anoka or Spring Lake Park in general. A portion of Blaine is locate in the Spring Lake Park school district, and those students cannot attend Blaine. Coon Rapids is basically paying kids to come into their program, in so many ways. You can't compete with bribery. Kudos to them, but the success of Mat Bandits STILL banks on the support of the parents willing to put in the time.

If parents aren't willing to engage and communicate with their local wrestling program, and aren't willing to offer their support, advice, and willingness to volunteer their time to that wrestling program, or even RESEARCH what is being done to improve the local wrestling program........then do the complete opposite, and volunteer all of their time and resources into another wrestling program, THERE IS NO SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. You can't make a hypocrit happy.

Blaine has a handful of individuals who have worked very hard to build the program, and lobby for parents' support and involvement. If parents are just going to turn their backs on that effort, then support someone else's effort, THERE IS NO SOLUTION.

Oh wait, I know the solution. Maybe Blaine should start paying parents to bring their wrestlers to Blaine. That's what it boils down to. "Show me the money", right?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
XHockeyDad
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You obviously don't get it....

I am not going to knock the Blaine program... I know nothing of the Blaine program...but I most certainly can speak to the Coon Rapids program...

We take the extra step to make sure that everyone feels welcome...we hang out after wrestling...we become one big family...part of the big red machine.

Coon Rapids does offer a lot of incentives to its wrestlers...pizza parties and such...but we do so to create a family atmosphere...we hang around to see how other kids are doing...we call each other outside of wrestling...we organize events to so that we get to know each others families better.

We don't go looking to recruit kids...people hear of our program and come to us...from far and wide....and we will continue to grow and grow; because we get it....

I wish your program the best of luck....maybe one day you will get it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
XHockeyDad
Apr 23 2008, 08:34 AM
You obviously don't get it....

I am not going to knock the Blaine program... I know nothing of the Blaine program...but I most certainly can speak to the Coon Rapids program...

We take the extra step to make sure that everyone feels welcome...we hang out after wrestling...we become one big family...part of the big red machine.

Coon Rapids does offer a lot of incentives to its wrestlers...pizza parties and such...but we do so to create a family atmosphere...we hang around to see how other kids are doing...we call each other outside of wrestling...we organize events to so that we get to know each others families better.

I don't get it huh?

Blaine does all of those things....but you wouldn't know it if you weren't around to see it.

Pizza parties = money. Money = fundraising and sponsors. Fundraising and sponsors = parent's involvement and support.

You don't accomplish "D" without first accomplishing "A" "B" and "C". Again, it comes down to "What can I do?" and not "What do I get?"

Great ideas, but you still need to remember that Mat Bandits is an organization built up of VOLUNTEERS. An organization isn't a tangible entity. The volunteers are. So, who is really providing all this atmosphere? Is it Mat Bandits, which is just a set of rules and regulations, or is it the volunteers?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
XHockeyDad
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
its a combination of A, B, and C ....be patient then, you are doing all the right things...stick to your guns, get more people involved and you will have success....sounds like you are ready to cash it in :huh: . Be patient, wrestling is very cyclical....Like I said, best of luck to you guys.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Iowan@heart
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gambler and Hockyguy -

This thread was about the need for more Freestyle and Greco officials. Which club a volunteer is associated with doesn't impact the overall numbers.

Maybe you two should handle your personal issues via e-mail. Your comments here do nothing to address the issue or promote the sport.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
XHockeyDad
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
my apologies....but our program was attacked and I was defending it...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
XHockeyDad
Apr 23 2008, 09:16 AM
my apologies....but our program was attacked and I was defending it...

Nobody attacked your program. I apologize for using the word "bribery", but facts are facts. Money buys happiness.

The question was "What is being done to stop wrestlers from leaving Blaine, and going to Coon Rapids?" The answer was, "what can be done if nobody is willing to listen, ask questions, communicate with the program, or volunteer their time to build the program.

That's not an attack on Coon Rapids. It's an attack on those who would rather recieve, then to give.

Back to the original post, Blaine would probably provide freestyle referees and volunteers at tournaments, if the wrestlers who were serious about wrestling weren't leaving the program to go to Coon Rapids.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
XHockeyDad
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
tell you what superstar...why don't you start another thread called "why are Blaine wrestlers leaving to go to Coon Rapids"....then we will let the 10 kids (all state place winners by the way) who fled from your program respond directly to your accusations.

Oh yeah, 10 of the people we stole from your program will be reffing on Friday and Saturday..stop by we will give you a free t-shirt.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thegambler
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
XHockeyDad
Apr 23 2008, 09:28 AM
tell you what superstar...why don't you start another thread called "why are Blaine wrestlers leaving to go to Coon Rapids"....then we will let the 10 kids (all state place winners by the way) who fled from your program respond directly to your accusations.

Oh yeah, 10 of the people we stole from your program will be reffing on Friday and Saturday..stop by we will give you a free t-shirt.

Must feel good to sit in a nice high tower, and look down on other people.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ccbig
Member Avatar
Super Fan
[ *  *  *  * ]
The time has probably come for us to advocate for paying the ref's.

As some have pointed out aside from the cost of gas and meals refs are volunteers.

With constant rule changes and the hard work involved with trying to be alert and be in position for fast paced freestyle & greco matches it is really something that deserves at least a small pay amount!

Maybe $1.00 out of every wrestler's entrance fee to a tourney should be allotted to paying the ref's at each tourney.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tiny Tornado
Member Avatar
Tiny Tornado
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
NO, NO, and NO...if you're going to pay ref's, then youre going to have to also pay the pairers and the tableworkers - once you open the cans of worms, the top doesn't go back on :unsure:

what needs to happen is more parents need to become more involved and realize that the ref's
, and pairer's and tournament directors, and tableworker directors, etc etc etc
will be retiring someday, and they will need to learn how- we need more committment from the clubs to provide volunteers in all area's....

most clubs will pay for the hotel rooms for their mat and pairing officials to attend the State Tournament - and if they don't yet, they should start-
that's the only form of pay I know of at this time-
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register Now
« Previous Topic · Club/Freestyle/Greco-Roman · Next Topic »
Add Reply