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| why Blaine wrestlers leaving to go to Coon Rapids; per XHockeyDad's request | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 23 2008, 09:39 AM (4,000 Views) | |
| HDPOLFOOTBASEWREST | Apr 24 2008, 08:38 AM Post #31 |
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LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THEM GUYS IN WACONIA I WISH I LIVED IN THAT AREA OH WELL ! THEY ROCK NICER GENTLEMEN YOU WONT FIND! |
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| Iowan@heart | Apr 24 2008, 08:43 AM Post #32 |
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Fantastic
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I have no connection with either Coon Rapids or Blaine, but I do have an opinion on the subject of jumping ship. I've heard many parents (unrelated to this discussion) who have echoed the same opinion "I'm going to take my kids where they can get the best coaching/competition/opportunity". While I understand this sentiment, it is nonetheless short-sighted and selfish. The right answer is to get more involved in your local program and to dedicate time and effort to build it into the program that you'd like to see. Wrestling clubs that are in the building phase of development constantly struggle with the best, most dedicated wrestlers and parents abandoning their local program in search of something that is more mature and has already has more to offer. The truth is that it's a self-feeding situation - you're starving the organization of the very people it needs to become the club you want it to be. In any case, I don't know if this even applies to the Coon Rapids/Blaine situation, but sometimes the people complaining are the problem, and the solution. |
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| lanceb | Apr 24 2008, 08:59 AM Post #33 |
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Why people leave one program for another, the answer for my son and I was easy. My son started off with the Blaine/SLP youth program. After a month or so in to the season he did not want to go. The practices sometimes if you called them that, looked more like a daycare then a practice room. His partner would leave the room to go run around the halls. If the coach showed a move some kids would do it once then start playing around. He asked me if he could go some place else or just quit. At that point I looked for something better. So we went to the Mat Bandits, and he likes it here. A couple of things I noticed right away were 1. The varsity head coach came to practice once a week or so to check the kids out and show them a move or two. Talk with parents; we never knew who the Blaine head coach was. 2. High School wrestlers would come once a week and help coach. Do you know the effect that has on kids? Dad “I was practicing with Ryan Adams and he showed me” The look in his eyes when he was talking about that, right there it was worth the move. 3. When they ran a tournament people showed up to help. Not the same 3 people all the time. I don’t have time to reinvent the wheel, but I can help it move forward. 4. Coaches would take notes at opens of things to work on the next week. You bring up the question of money in about every post you made. Well then look at it like a business. They make or have a great product; there is a point when people are tired buy or using a substandard product. At that point two things will happen they quit or change. People want to give their kids the best opportunity to succeed and I did not see that with Blaine/SLP wrestling. I would not say Coon Rapids Took your wrestler’s away Blaine just let them go. One other note hand my son played football for the Blaine/SPL youth program last year, and wants to do it again this year. They are doing a good job with that product. |
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| WePlayHockeyNow | Apr 24 2008, 09:19 AM Post #34 |
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Your points are valid but, I have one issue with this logic. To my knowledge, with the exception of Andover, these are established programs. The fact is that some programs are better than others. If I feel that a club has had plenty of time to become successful and hasn't yet reached those expectations, should I feel obligated to enroll my children in a that club just because I live in that city? Call it selfish if you will but, I'd like my boys' wrestling in the program I see best fit for them to succeed. Who knows where I will live in the future.....down the road these decisions will likely be made for me based on my geographic location. But, for now, I have a choice and it's my right to make whatever choice I believe is best. Just my two more cents.... |
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| WePlayHockeyNow | Apr 24 2008, 09:28 AM Post #35 |
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These are great points and two big reasons we love Anoka so much! My boys think it's the coolest thing ever when Brandon Paulson walks into the wrestling room to help the youth program. I can't do everything for my boys but, I can provide them with opportunities to be coached by great wrestlers/coaches like Paulson, Dietchler, Lucas Murray, Rich Miller, Todd Springer and the list goes on and on at Anoka. |
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| Iowan@heart | Apr 24 2008, 10:10 AM Post #36 |
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Fantastic
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Yes, you're right - you do have a choice - to be involved or be part of the problem. I believe wrestling is unique in that it requires involvement by parents in order for clubs to be successful. I don't know you and I'm sure that you have good intentions but I lump parents into two groups - contributers and users. Contributers often work their butts off for no pay and little apprecation. They identify the problems and work towards fixing them. Users basically just drop their kids off and try to get everything they can out of the program while actually contributing as little as possible. When my kids play soccer, I'll admit that I'm a user. I don't want to have anything to do with practice or travel or the clubs. Basically, because I don't care about soccer or whether or not the club is successful in the long term. Same with most commercial businesses - I'm paying for a product and I want the most I can get for the least possible effort. But wrestling clubs are relatively low-cost, non-profit, and staffed mainly with volunteers. It really takes personal committment to make them successful. Not just people figuring out what they can get out of them. And yes, I do think you should support your local community just because you live there. Whether it's in business or sports, that's pretty much what being a "community" means. By the way, sorry for dropping into your discussion and venting. I'll stay out of it from now on. I just wanted to share the other side of this discussion. |
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| WePlayHockeyNow | Apr 24 2008, 10:26 AM Post #37 |
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By most accounts, you have me lumped in the wrong group. I am not a "user", I do contribute a great deal to the program. I slap the wrestling shoes on every single practice and help coach the K-3 kids....among other things. I love the sport, as you do. And, will continue to contribute as time allows. My fault in your eyes is that I'm supporting the wrong program. I will respectfully disagree with you on that point. I do not feel obligated to send my boys to SLP or Blaine just because I live there. I also do not feel obligated to help build those programs. As I mentioned yesterday, I have reasons for choosing Anoka. Some of which are evident from my posts. Others I will not get into on a message board. But, I ultimately believe it's my choice and I don't feel as if I'm doing anything wrong. Some may agree and some may disagree....that's just fine by me. I feel comfortable with my decisions. |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 11:08 AM Post #38 |
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This is an interesting thread. I think, as it relates to youth wrestling, we walk a fine line between making sure the kids are having fun and ensuring we structure practices with adequate intensity. The reality of things is (at least IMHO) is that with every progression in grade year things get more competitive perhaps beginning to taper around 5th-6th grade meaning 2nd-5th grade is a pretty important time frame in a wrestlers evolution because if you are not training at a high enough level your kids are going to probably get spanked at the bigger tournaments and to the extent success in sports has a strong correlation with a kids willingness to continue I think we do a disservice to our kids by not seeking strong programs that share our values. It is easy to go too far one way or another and this is always going to be both a practical and philosophical matter for both parents and wrestlers. Where I do think we sometimes get off track is we fail to realize that ideally we are preparing our kids to be well rounded athletes with a healthy competitive spirit so that when they get to an age where winning and losing really matters they are able to excel. The point I am driving at is I don't take much issue with a family taking a kid to the program they think matches up the best with their ideals and correspondingly provides their kid with the greatest chance of success. It is virtually impossible for a single program to accomodate all families/wrestlers on this front. |
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| thegambler | Apr 24 2008, 11:14 AM Post #39 |
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Fantastic
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I understand why someone might want to work out in another youth program, or another freestyle program to benefit the development of the individual. That's fine. I see kids do that all the time. Hence the idea of the High Flyers Club. But, where I have a problem is when people start talking about pulling their kids out of an entire school system based on one youth experience from years ago, and blaming an entire high school for that experience without first addressing those concerns with the high school team. At some point, I'm sure that the Blaine, Andover, or SLP youth programs were raw. With a raw program, you get raw kids AND raw parents. It's hard to throw a Brandon Paulson type person, or even a paid coach into that atmosphere without first knowing what your kids and parents want out of the program. It's pretty difficult to get a Brandon Paulson type person willing to donate their time to turn a group of goofy kids into wrestlers. Before you "get serious", you need to see a desire to "get serious". If kids are not paying attention, not taking an interest in wrestling, and running around in the hallways, chances are wrestling is not going to be their thing. Some responsibility that has to be placed on the parents. If a parent is serious about their kid getting into wrestling, I highly doubt that kid is going to be goofing off in practice. If I have a kid, and he or she decides to wrestle, I can promise you that I will take the reins on the local youth program IF needed. Then one, two, three, maybe 4 friends along side, and 8 years later, you have yourself a state contender. |
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| duty | Apr 24 2008, 11:22 AM Post #40 |
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Sounds like they could use you now................. |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 11:24 AM Post #41 |
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Well, hopefully this thread is good therapy for you b/c I don't really know how to respond to the historical side of this you bring up and apparently nobody else can to your satisfaction, either. The reality of things is regardless of the age of the program, if I arrive somewhere and they don't have at least one kid who can adequately match up with mine, and if the level of intensity is too low, we're going to not stick around very long. If you are at a stage in your program where you have a majority of newbees I don't see what the problem is. Do your best with what you have and as you stated, success will come. |
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| WePlayHockeyNow | Apr 24 2008, 11:50 AM Post #42 |
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It sounds to me like you have specific issues/incidents you're referring to. After all these posts, it appears your problem lies there and not with parents simply choosing another program over Blaine. Is that fair to say? In any event, it seemed to be a good discussion handled reasonably well by all. I'm comfortable with what I'm doing and with my thoughts on the subject. All done posting about this topic.....good luck to all your kids at State next weekend! |
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| heavyweightdad | Apr 24 2008, 12:02 PM Post #43 |
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Fantastic
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Maybe there is a happy medium here... I know several "top" wrestlers whose home HS team/youth teams are not "tough enough" for them. And I am talking about MORE than one HS/youth program here... They have however, found a balance...The decided to stay. The have become leaders, helped grow their programs, recruit and retain others, and get/keep quality coaching while slowly building their "home" school. How can this be done without the "top" wrestler rotting/slowing down, not getting the competition they need? Simply put: seeking out extra practices beyond their youth program/camps/top tourneys...seeking out others to help them beyond their youth/HS doors and excelling on their own, as well as in their youth practice room. Some kids WANT to stay in their home town/go to school with their friends/and try and make their wrestling team better every year. They may never be as good as Apple Valley, but are they growing? getting better than last year because of who stayed? I think there are many life lessons learned about "sticking it out"...I think loyalty has some merit here. If your program is moving forward after speaking with all the coaches, and they are helping the "top" kids get better, plus growing everyone else...what could be better, than down the line, having YOUR team make it to state? or at least get better every year? For some kids, loyalty to their coaches/teammates is more important than greener pastures..... I keep thinking of the movie "Facing the Giants"...they lost a few star players, and how they reacted to it and what they did with what they had was amazing... I am NOT jusging ANYONES choice for leaving/choosing differently...just wanted to show another perspective...sometimes leaving IS the only choice. |
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| Tiny Tornado | Apr 24 2008, 01:20 PM Post #44 |
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what started out as kind of a "nasty" topic has actually turned into a pretty civil discussion - thanks everyone
;) as a past organizer of a freestyle club, let me just say that if I witnessed a practice room where nobody was working on moves, and there was too much goofing around, and kids were allowed to actually take off and run down the hallways, I would do two things: 1)address the parents; and make sure they weren't using practice time as a babysitter - when parents are actually involved enough to come inside, that's when they learn how to help coach, meet the other parents, make connections, learn about volunteer opportunities, etc....get them involved - don't let them just drop Johnny off at the door and never even meet anybody- not to mention it's usually "Johnny" that ends up with ringworm, and the poor kid has no parent around to talk to about how to treat it :unsure: 2) I would have NEW coaches the following year - either that, or more coaches- sounds like they aren't in control of anything, if that's what's happening.... just my two cents - I'm not talking about any particular program here either - just talking from experience and what needs to be done to fix it ..... |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 01:21 PM Post #45 |
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That's a great post and I think is the perfect compromise and akin to the approach we are taking as are most of the parents/wrestlers we see around us. Support the home program and if needed seek supplemental practices. I also don't see a problem with a brief hiatus (maybe a season) to change environments and wrestle with a different group. It does seem the OP is upset about some specific incidents and that is unfortunate. It really is too small a community to leave our wounded behind. |
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| thegambler | Apr 24 2008, 03:18 PM Post #46 |
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Fantastic
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I appreciate all the information. And I can assure everyone that Blaine Youth Wrestling is not a place for goofing off, should anyone want to stop by for a visit. There are some excellent wrestlers in the room, many of which you haven't seen at many tournaments yet. In regards to taking the reins of my local youth program, it's in pretty good hands right now. Unfortunately, my local youth wrestling progam isn't anywhere near Blaine, so taking the reins at Blaine is not an option. |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 03:58 PM Post #47 |
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Huh? You are not affiliated with Blaine? OK. Now I am remarkably confused. What just happened here? |
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| XHockeyDad | Apr 24 2008, 04:46 PM Post #48 |
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Fantastic
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...welcome to my World..... |
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| Deleted User | Apr 24 2008, 05:22 PM Post #49 |
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He is a Blaine alum that was involved in their program until recently, when he moved for work. That's my understanding. |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 07:35 PM Post #50 |
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Thanks. Do they have beer here? |
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| Deleted User | Apr 24 2008, 08:47 PM Post #51 |
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Xhockey only understands statements that end with "eh" |
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| lilmatdog | Apr 24 2008, 09:41 PM Post #52 |
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Fantastic
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I think for many of us we might have a difficult time comprehending what wrestling is like up in that area of the state. I think you can drive 15 minutes and be is 5 different wrestling rooms... there are more clubs up there than anywhere else that I know of. I also know of some kids up north suburban area who are in two different clubs. I know of kids who will call around to the other kids regardless of club for a practice partner. I know of kids who were in one club but the people they rode to the tournaments with and practiced with were in another club minutes away so they switched. I think that area of the metro is funny the way they will support each other in one thing and turn on them for another... kind of like everyone is in the same group of blocks with all the kids on one street against the kids from the next street but they all go to the same school... on one hand they are teammates but on the other they are competitors... eh. I had to make it so Xhockey understands it as well... eh :D :lol: :D |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 10:04 PM Post #53 |
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I think that is a really accurate assessment. I support the hell out of our club and coach through the introductory session and the in-house season to help bring up the new kids but when it comes time to travelin' time we hit other clubs and have a favorite that we practice with most of the time because of the intensity and level of wrestlers there. I look back on what I posted and want to clarify that I do my best to support the young wrestlers coming up but I also respect what needs to happen for wrestlers in the more competitive age brackets. We can pay all the lip service we want to sticking it out at your local program but I think there are very few out there that would argue that given the level of wrestlers we have in this state there are only a few programs you can park in and feel comfortable you are consistently practicing at the level (both programatic and individually speaking) that your kid needs to. There is value in practicing with different clubs. |
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| XHockeyDad | Apr 24 2008, 10:10 PM Post #54 |
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Fantastic
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In my word there is always beer, eh.....Just ask brdhntr....lilmatdog, I didn't know you spoke Canadian, eh? :D |
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| Chris Shiherlis | Apr 24 2008, 10:11 PM Post #55 |
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Cool. Just wanted to make sure. Sounds like we will get along just fine.... |
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| BigPoppa11 | Apr 24 2008, 10:21 PM Post #56 |
Fantastic
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Why doesnt everyone cry about it. |
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| thegambler | Apr 25 2008, 06:49 AM Post #57 |
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Fantastic
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I think I know who you are referring to, but good guess. I'm just a Blaine alum (who may or may not have even done Mat Bandits at one point) who supports the Blaine program (and also likes to pick fights). |
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| TheOriginal CK | Apr 25 2008, 06:58 AM Post #58 |
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Man - this entire topic takes me back quite a few years. For those of you who may be a bit newer to the wrestling community in the CR - Blaine area, here are a few historical points that relate directly to this topic. Did you know that back in the 70's and early 80's there was a wrestling club that practiced at Northdale Junior High called Herakles - it was one of finest clubs in the state at that time. Did you also know that back in those days Northdale Junior High probably had the best (if not one of the best) junior high wrestling team in the state? (no I don't want to get into a huge debate on the facts of this statement, just let me indulge a bit here - thanks). Let's just say that the program was dedicated to wrestling and was loaded with talent. However, one of the big challenges with Northdale Jr. high was that roughly 1/2 of the kids from that JR High went to blaine and the other 1/2 went to CR. I always considered it a bummer that we had to break up those great teams. The upside was that both CR and Blaine had some very good HS wrestling back then - very competative. The driving force behind the Herakles club back then was Jim Mead Sr. alond with Gale Westerlund. Well as many of you may know, Jim died at a very young age due to heart attack and a big part of Herakles went with him - it was never quite the same. It was after this time period that the Mat Bandits wrestling club came into existence as we know it today. As Mat Bandits continued to grow, Herakles dwindled down to nearly nothing at one point. After that, I don't really recall hearing much about the youth wrestling program in blaine. My hope is for both communities is that CR will continue to flourish and that Blaine can continue to rebuild a program that will rival CR. Many of us Northdale guys that ended up going to CR lived much closer to Blaine HS than we did to CR High School. Heck ND JR. High is not that far from Blaine HS either. But that is how it was zoned and we did not have any choice back then. I suspect that if freedom of choice would have been in place back then, there would have been many kids switching from 1 school or the other in order to go to high school with their friends from JR. High. It was really a bummer going through Jr. High and developing all of those great friendships only to be split out when it came time to go to HS. At the end of the day though, it's about keeping wrestling going. Now me and my family are heavily involved the STF Gladiators wrestling program and loving it. It is a great thing to have more and more options to get in volved in this great sport in MN. It's great for the kids and the community. Sorry for rambling. |
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| hockeymom | Apr 25 2008, 07:32 AM Post #59 |
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Fantastic
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I remember taking my kindergartner to a tourney hosted by Herekles in 2001... So I think they broke up later than that. |
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| TheOriginal CK | Apr 25 2008, 07:48 AM Post #60 |
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Actually Herakles still exists today but it is now located in Anoka, I believe. I don't think it ever totally went away - just pretty much dormant for period of time. |
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