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why Blaine wrestlers leaving to go to Coon Rapids; per XHockeyDad's request
Topic Started: Apr 23 2008, 09:39 AM (3,998 Views)
lanceb
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I don’t want to through out any names or schools. But parents, kids and coaches see what it takes to win a team state title and how they just move in or transfer to that school. There is a couple of school this happens at and not just wrestling. We live in a very competitive state and if your son or daughter wants to play at the next level, every little thing helps. Just look how far people drive on Sunday for there 3rd to 6th grader to practice. Times have changed back when I was in school kids did not kick it up to that level until we were freshman in high school, now they have to start about 5th grade. Lifting at 6th and this is not just with wrestling look at basketball two brothers that live by us are in AAU traveling basketball and they play 10 months out of the year.

If we took just the section 7 champs vs. Apply Valley we still could not beat them. I just hope that when my son is in high school his team will go to state. Just look at the finals in other sports they are close games. This year the finals 57-6 and Apple Valley put in subs. Every where on TV kids see 2nd place is the 1st loser, we made this environment. So if kids leave on program to go to another that is just the world we made.
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TheOriginal CK
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I would take the section 7 champs over valley - of last year 26-23
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BlaineWrestling
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TheOriginal CK
Apr 25 2008, 06:58 AM
Man - this entire topic takes me back quite a few years.  For those of you who may be a bit newer to the wrestling community in the CR - Blaine area, here are a few historical points that relate directly to this topic.  Did you know that back in the 70's and early 80's there was a wrestling club that practiced at Northdale Junior High called Herakles - it was one of finest clubs in the state at that time.  Did you also know that back in those days Northdale Junior High probably had the best (if not one of the best) junior high wrestling team in the state? (no I don't want to get into a huge debate on the facts of this statement, just let me indulge a bit here - thanks).  Let's just say that the program was dedicated to wrestling and was loaded with talent.  However, one of the big challenges with Northdale Jr. high was that roughly 1/2 of the kids from that JR High went to blaine and the other 1/2 went to CR.  I always considered it a bummer that we had to break up those great teams.  The upside was that both CR and Blaine had some very good HS wrestling back then - very competative.  The driving force behind the Herakles club back then was Jim Mead Sr. alond with Gale Westerlund.   Well as many of you may know, Jim died at a very young age due to heart attack and a big part of Herakles went with him - it was never quite the same.  It was after this time period that the Mat Bandits wrestling club came into existence as we know it today.  As Mat Bandits continued to grow, Herakles dwindled down to nearly nothing at one point.  After that, I don't really recall hearing much about the youth wrestling program in blaine.  My hope is for both communities is that CR will continue to flourish and that Blaine can continue to rebuild a program that will rival CR.  Many of us Northdale guys that ended up going to CR lived much closer to Blaine HS than we did to CR High School. Heck ND JR. High is not that far from Blaine HS either.  But that is how it was zoned and we did not have any choice back then.  I suspect that if freedom of choice would have been in place back then, there would have been many kids switching from 1 school or the other in order to go to high school with their friends from JR. High.   It was really a bummer going through Jr. High and developing all of those great friendships only to be split out when it came time to go to HS.   At the end of the day though, it's about keeping wrestling going.  Now me and my family are heavily involved the STF Gladiators wrestling program and loving it.  It is a great thing to have more and more options to get in volved in this great sport in MN.  It's great for the kids and the community.  Sorry for rambling.

Brief History continuation of Blaine (facts to the best of my knowledge)

Late 80s:
Not sure if it was the SAME Herkales club or not, but there was a Herakles Club that was very active at Blaine in the late 80s and early 90s. At that time, I believe the club was being run out of the Blaine High School.

Most of the kids in that Club came through the Roosevelt Junior High program (not Northdale), where there was also long time wrestling coach.

Early 90s:
From what I understand, whoever ran that Herakles program packed up and moved, and restablished what is know as the Herakles program in Anoka. That was around 1990-1991.

Around 1992 (post Herkales), you started seeing kids come to Blaine from Mat Bandits, maybe because of district boundary changes or soemthing. You didn't see Mat Bandits kids come in until about the time Herakles was gone.

Blaine had some very good wrestling teams in the 1991-1997 years, when there was a large cross over of wrestlers from both Herakles and Mat Bandits.

Late 90s:
After the Blaine head coach who was there from 1991 to 1997 stepped down, and another long time assistant coach took a principle position, there was no one around long enough to get anything started. Nobody has thought about starting a Freestyle program at Blaine, primarily because nobody knew anything about freestyle.


2000-2003
There was a head coach at Blaine from 2000 - 2003, but the word was that he didn't get along with the Mat Bandits crowd very much, and butted heads with many valuable parents and experienced wrestlers. I heard that he was not very interested in getting outside help for his program, and that he tried to do most everything himself.

2004-Present
The current head coach has been at Blaine since 2004, and has probably made greater strides at developing the program from within then any coach has in a long time. Anyone who visited the wrestling room in 2004 was probably not walking into a pretty picture, because the program was a mess, and the head coach had his hands full. He has alumni wrestling in college right now who are committed to coming back to Blaine to help, and he's hired the right people to do the right jobs.

To my knowledge, many of the older alumni and local wrestling fanatics have had trouble buying into the wrestling program at Blaine because of what they have seen on the mat today (not a lot of wins). But, the parents and wrestlers are buying into it, which is what really matters. Blaine actually came very close to beating Anoka about 3 years ago. Most of the kids you see at the high school right now have only been out for wrestling for only a few years, with no freestyle or youth wrestling experience. It's been a crash course in wrestling for most of those kids, and I feel they have fared pretty well.

I think Blaine had over 40 kids in the room last year, most of which started wrestling in 9th grade. That's amazing if you ask me. It's hard to turn back time on years when you weren't coaching. They also started a freestyle program last year, the first in over 15 years.
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thegambler
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Blainefan
Apr 25 2008, 02:06 PM
They also started a freestyle program last year, the first in over 15 years.

Blaine did start a Freestyle program last year, which was great. But on an added note, they had a really good freestyle coach who had to quit this year because of job commitments. Blaine had to scrammble to pick up the slack, and I think they are doing ok now. This just serves as an example of how difficult it is to find able bodied people to fill the rolls necessary for a successful wrestling program.
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Tiny Tornado
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Blainefan; yes the Herakles Club that was once in Blaine ended up in Anoka-

my son joined Herakles 11 yrs ago - so up until this past year, the Freestyle Club from Anoka was still called Herakles, I don't recall anytime in the past 11 yrs where it dwindled down to nothing ? I would know, since I was the Club Director and Treasurer, until retiring 2 yrs ago...anyway....just this season, the club itself just didn't use the Herakles name and for this season at least is under the name Anoka Ramsey Youth Wrestling; as the kid's Folkstyle people kind of took over setting things up....the number of participants is probably 1/2 of what it was 11 yrs ago, so maybe that's what you meant by dwindling ? but the club itself has never dissapeared, it's just changed places, and changed hands from the people who ran it in the past to some new people now- I remember when the Tournament Anoka ran every year was titled THE JIM MEAD OPEN, then later changed to The Herakles Open....
my point being- Clubs are not unlike HS programs, they can have up and down seasons, and up and down enrollment....but the overall health of all the clubs up here in this area is still pretty strong- CR has a lot of members, Blaine is up and coming, St Francis has a lot of kids, then there's a lot of older kids who like to participate with Central; which does quite well...lots of choices, and that's a good thing- while being involved with Herakles, I signed up kids from Blaine, I think it was the year where they didn't have a club ? then I also signed up kids from both Andover and Meadow Creek Christian School - both of those schools now have their own clubs....
moving around is OK; it doesn't mean a kid who wrestles freestyle somewhere else is going to leave his HS and switch...that's what's so special about freestyle season- a kid who is a rival during varsity season can become a teammate during the summer months :)
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BlaineWrestling
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Tiny Tornado
Apr 26 2008, 09:44 AM
I don't recall anytime in the past 11 yrs where it dwindled down to nothing ? I would know, since I was the Club Director and Treasurer, until retiring 2 yrs............................................

.................it doesn't mean a kid who wrestles freestyle somewhere else is going to leave his HS and switch...that's what's so special about freestyle season- a kid who is a rival during varsity season can become a teammate during the summer months

I don't think Herakles ever dwindled down to nothing. I said that Blaine had the Herakles program in the late 80s, early 90s, then it moved to Anoka.
After moving to Anoka, a freestyle program was never reestablished at Blaine until recently. 11 years ago would have been 1997, 6 years after the program left Blaine.

I think the original post was implying that some kids are switching schools based on the clubs they attend. Just my interpretation.
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Tiny Tornado
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blainefan, I understand- just my first comment was for you; that it's the same club but that it moved...my other comments were kind of directed to different comments from different people...I kinda ramble at times, I guess :rolleyes:
I'm hoping that the program in Blaine is very successful....
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firemans11
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I would love to see the Blaine program build and grow. As a wrestling community we need more programs verses less. Does it do our sport any good to have a few Blaine kids have to wrestle at Mat Bandits or Anoka? The best case scenario would be to have the club available in ones communty verses having to go wrestle at other clubs. To me we run in to problems when a school does not have a freestley program. What if a stud kid wrestles at a school with no freestyle program, and goes in the summer and wrestles at lets say a mat bandit, I am just using mat bandits as an example, now that stud might want to leave his communty to wrestle at a Coon Rapids, and I do not think that is right. In theory the kid would just get more mat time, but we all know how folks in the clubs talk, you know the lines of " you would look great in our line up" or " with you in our line up we can go to state, or win state". See what I mean, bad things happen under this scenario.

So good luck Blaine, and all communities that want their programs to take their programs to the next level.
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crdirector
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In regards to CR "stealing" Blaine kids, as the former director of the mat bandits club I have personal insight to the issue. Many of the kids who live in Blaine and wrestle for the Mat Bandits came from the Blaine/ SLP club the Mat Stalkers. When this club dissolved (in mid season), these kids and parents were left without a home. I myself invited them to come and wrestle for CR, and thankfully they did. many of these people have been instrumental in the success of the Mat Bandits over the last few years. At the same time CR as a program started toward a "one team" approach, meaning all of the kids K-12 were cardinal wrestlers. We kept the Mat Bandit name but "Cardinal Pride" was our break call after practice (not mat bandits). Our youth singlet matched the HS (as close as possible) The HS wrestlers and coaches came in (and continue to come in) every week to help coach practices. These "transplants" found a home and after a number of years of growing to love CR wrestling did not want to attend another program. We moved six years ago after being in CR for 5+ years. My sons were willing at that time to quit wrestling rather than wrestle for a different program. Thankfully for me we found a house in CR that fit our needs. Basically the loss of their program and the CR pride in the Mat Bandits is the reason for many Blaine kids wrestling in our program.

What people have to consider is the Mat Bandits are not a "multi community" "all star" or "regional" club. Although our doors are open to people outside our HS boundaries it is and will continue to be a Coon Rapids Wrestling program. The kids who attend will be wearing Red, doing cardinal jacks, and learning to have pride in CR wrestling. The same as it is in AV, Anoka, ST Francis, Forest Lake, good programs want to keep good people. The fact that many kids wrestle for the Mat Bandits enroll in CRHS just tells me we as Mat Bandit members are doing our job in promoting the program.
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REESE
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crdirector
Apr 28 2008, 10:40 AM
In regards to CR "stealing" Blaine kids, as the former director of the mat bandits club I have personal insight to the issue. Many of the kids who live in Blaine and wrestle for the Mat Bandits came from the Blaine/ SLP club the Mat Stalkers. When this club dissolved (in mid season), these kids and parents were left without a home. I myself invited them to come and wrestle for CR, and thankfully they did. many of these people have been instrumental in the success of the Mat Bandits over the last few years. At the same time CR as a program started toward a "one team" approach, meaning all of the kids K-12 were cardinal wrestlers. We kept the Mat Bandit name but "Cardinal Pride" was our break call after practice (not mat bandits). Our youth singlet matched the HS (as close as possible) The HS wrestlers and coaches came in (and continue to come in) every week to help coach practices. These "transplants" found a home and after a number of years of growing to love CR wrestling did not want to attend another program. We moved six years ago after being in CR for 5+ years. My sons were willing at that time to quit wrestling rather than wrestle for a different program. Thankfully for me we found a house in CR that fit our needs. Basically the loss of their program and the CR pride in the Mat Bandits is the reason for many Blaine kids wrestling in our program.

What people have to consider is the Mat Bandits are not a "multi community" "all star" or "regional" club. Although our doors are open to people outside our HS boundaries it is and will continue to be a Coon Rapids Wrestling program. The kids who attend will be wearing Red, doing cardinal jacks, and learning to have pride in CR wrestling. The same as it is in AV, Anoka, ST Francis, Forest Lake, good programs want to keep good people. The fact that many kids wrestle for the Mat Bandits enroll in CRHS just tells me we as Mat Bandit members are doing our job in promoting the program.

I can't listen to this anymore..... What it really comes down to is parent involement, The way a club get's strong is by builing One family at a time.
I was the Vice-Presidant of the Mat Stalkers when the club ended, And there are many reasons this happend, I can tell you it was not due to Parent involvement.
Recently I have been to The Usa weekend tourny's and have seen several Kids that were on the Old team, And at the end of the club we had Blaine Kids as well, And they are all over the map now. I guess the important thing is the kids are involved and wrestling and haveing fun! If you have a Club and or Booster Program in your City and or community I strongly encourage you to get involved and help build from within! We are working in Spring Lake park right now, Have a very good Freestyle and Greco coach, as well as a All State Wrestler helping, That has came back to Spring Lake Park since we have re-started the program (And yes he was at a Champlin club,which opened there hearts to him as well), Our Big guys that are beginers go to the Club and the few that are a high level go to Augsburg. Try to build your communitys the more parents and kids the better, It's easier to go then to stay and work the hard times. Remember It's about the kids!
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firemans11
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crdirector
Apr 28 2008, 10:40 AM
In regards to CR "stealing" Blaine kids, as the former director of the mat bandits club I have personal insight to the issue. Many of the kids who live in Blaine and wrestle for the Mat Bandits came from the Blaine/ SLP club the Mat Stalkers. When this club dissolved (in mid season), these kids and parents were left without a home. I myself invited them to come and wrestle for CR, and thankfully they did. many of these people have been instrumental in the success of the Mat Bandits over the last few years. At the same time CR as a program started toward a "one team" approach, meaning all of the kids K-12 were cardinal wrestlers. We kept the Mat Bandit name but "Cardinal Pride" was our break call after practice (not mat bandits). Our youth singlet matched the HS (as close as possible) The HS wrestlers and coaches came in (and continue to come in) every week to help coach practices. These "transplants" found a home and after a number of years of growing to love CR wrestling did not want to attend another program. We moved six years ago after being in CR for 5+ years. My sons were willing at that time to quit wrestling rather than wrestle for a different program. Thankfully for me we found a house in CR that fit our needs. Basically the loss of their program and the CR pride in the Mat Bandits is the reason for many Blaine kids wrestling in our program.

What people have to consider is the Mat Bandits are not a "multi community" "all star" or "regional" club. Although our doors are open to people outside our HS boundaries it is and will continue to be a Coon Rapids Wrestling program. The kids who attend will be wearing Red, doing cardinal jacks, and learning to have pride in CR wrestling. The same as it is in AV, Anoka, ST Francis, Forest Lake, good programs want to keep good people. The fact that many kids wrestle for the Mat Bandits enroll in CRHS just tells me we as Mat Bandit members are doing our job in promoting the program.

I did not say CR was stealing, I just used them for an example. I know the theme of the thread started out like that but that was not my point on my post. I felt safe using CR as an example because I know of no kids that have transfered their.

Again, I encourage comminities to start and maintain their own freestyle club, so you do not have to send your kids to be coached by rival schools, that is not a healthy situation.
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BlaineWrestling
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heavyweightdad
Apr 24 2008, 12:02 PM
Maybe there is a happy medium here...
I know several "top" wrestlers whose home HS team/youth teams are not "tough enough" for them. And I am talking about MORE than one HS/youth program here...
They have however, found a balance...The decided to stay. The have become leaders, helped grow their programs, recruit and retain others, and get/keep quality coaching while slowly building their "home" school. How can this be done without the "top" wrestler rotting/slowing down, not getting the competition they need? Simply put: seeking out extra practices beyond their youth program/camps/top tourneys...seeking out others to help them beyond their youth/HS doors and excelling on their own, as well as in their youth practice room. Some kids WANT to stay in their home town/go to school with their friends/and try and make their wrestling team better every year. They may never be as good as Apple Valley, but are they growing? getting better than last year because of who stayed? I think there are many life lessons learned about "sticking it out"...I think loyalty has some merit here. If your program is moving forward after speaking with all the coaches, and they are helping the "top" kids get better, plus growing everyone else...what could be better, than down the line, having YOUR team make it to state? or at least get better every year? For some kids, loyalty to their coaches/teammates is more important than greener pastures.....
I keep thinking of the movie "Facing the Giants"...they lost a few star players, and how they reacted to it and what they did with what they had was amazing...

I am NOT jusging ANYONES choice for leaving/choosing differently...just wanted to show another perspective...sometimes leaving IS the only choice.

I was just reading through some of the earlier posts in this topic, and this one sticks out the most.

I honestly believe that if a kid has the physical ability to be a good wrestler, that kid enjoys wrestling, and that kid learns to do a couple of things really well, he's going to succeed. If you can get that kid to come out for wrestling at an early age and stay out for wrestling, they will succeed that much more regardless of how good or bad their program is. Wrestling is not rocket science.

I also believe that if parents really want their kids to be good wrestlers, they should be less concerned with the coaching that their kids are getting, and more concerned with their kids getting burned out by wrestling. Don't get me wrong, you don't want to throw out good coaching, and coaching can certainly has something to do with burning a kid out. But, you get my point.

It's easy to see kids enjoying it now, but throw girls, cars, and parties into the mix, and kids start to make different choices. I think that someone who wrestles until the end of their career without winning a match, accomplishes more then the guy who won a lot of matches in his life, then quits before it was done.
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