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Favorite Org's; Pro's and Con's on Org's
Topic Started: Jun 1 2008, 12:04 PM (1,209 Views)
MistItBy.4
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What are some of your favorite MMA Organizations putting fights on?
What did you like and dislike about them?
UFC: Top of the game, hate Dana
IFL: I liked the fights, new format i haven't seen...
WEC: I haven't seen this yet, but i've heard of it. interested on the input.
Elite XC: HATED the card last night on CBS. A total disgrace.
Strikeforce: seemed decent.
BodogFights: What happened to this? Is it still out there?

Others???
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ande60kg
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UFC runs a good show

WEC obviously has a lot of the same good things as the UFC and I like the commentating. I think the UFC should send a few of the has-been guys and up and comers to spice up the cards.

Elite XC and Strikeforce seem to kind of be hit and miss.

BoDog is ok, they need more fights more often

IFL needs more big names and depth
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Mcrow
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I'll ranked them by fighter depth and strength:

#1- UFC (obviously)
#2- WEC (sort of like the UFC minor league)
#3-Bodog (has some good fighters but lacks depth)
#4- EliteXC ( has a few exciting fighters: Baroni, Kimbo Slice, & Robbie Lawler but pretty weak after that)
#5- Strikeforce (Mostly has-beens and nobodies)
#6- IFL ( the vast majority of these guys would get kicked around in UFC or WEC)
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Sprawl-N-Brawl
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WEC has it... young talented fighters looking to make an impact on the mma scene... all seem to want to move onto bigger and better pay days and it shows... Very rarily have i seen a boring WEC fight... with exception to "Razor" Rob's fight last night... Two title fights last night that you could make a full highlight video out of... Faber and Torres are freaks of nature... MMA sponges that absorb everything that they are taught... My hat does off to WEC... Amazing fights.. and plus it is on free TV... Cant beat that...
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Mcrow
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Sprawl-N-Brawl
Jun 2 2008, 01:18 PM
WEC has it... young talented fighters looking to make an impact on the mma scene... all seem to want to move onto bigger and better pay days and it shows... Very rarily have i seen a boring WEC fight... with exception to "Razor" Rob's fight last night... Two title fights last night that you could make a full highlight video out of... Faber and Torres are freaks of nature... MMA sponges that absorb everything that they are taught... My hat does off to WEC... Amazing fights.. and plus it is on free TV... Cant beat that...

free as in cable TV, right?

Elite XC is on free TV.
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Sprawl-N-Brawl
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Yeah Elite would be considered free too... I just clump that in with the movie channels... Every organization has its pros and its cons... Elite pays there fighters top dollar from what i have heard... But some of the fighters they have all they are payin for is a name (TANK ABBOTT)... Other organizations pay less but the fighter stays because he knows he is getting the best competition there... Every org. is going to have there stand outs... Im just a fan and am happy i have so many events to choose from and happy that most of them are gettin on tv one way or another... But still have a big soft spot for the WEC
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TheOriginal CK
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Figths on WEC on Sunday were Awesome. I don't think you can classify Faber as Minor League talent. He is legit for sure. I think he will help lead the way to a 145 class in the UFC. it is awesome to watch his fights. Torres is a true warrior as is the guy that he fought from Japan!! Awesome fight - one of the best!! B)
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Mcrow
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TheOriginal CK
Jun 5 2008, 08:29 PM
Figths on WEC on Sunday were Awesome. I don't think you can classify Faber as Minor League talent. He is legit for sure. I think he will help lead the way to a 145 class in the UFC. it is awesome to watch his fights. Torres is a true warrior as is the guy that he fought from Japan!! Awesome fight - one of the best!! B)

I'm not saying that Faber is a minor league fighter but that he would not be top 5 in UFC, IMO.

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC, however like the MLB minor leagues there are some players that could make for solid MLB players or need more experience to make it there.
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CropDuster
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Mcrow
Jun 9 2008, 10:43 AM
TheOriginal CK
Jun 5 2008, 08:29 PM
Figths on WEC on Sunday were Awesome.  I don't think you can classify Faber as Minor League talent. He is legit for sure.  I think he will help lead the way to a 145 class in the UFC.  it is awesome to watch his fights.  Torres is a true warrior as is the guy that he fought from Japan!!  Awesome fight - one of the best!! B)

I'm not saying that Faber is a minor league fighter but that he would not be top 5 in UFC, IMO.

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC, however like the MLB minor leagues there are some players that could make for solid MLB players or need more experience to make it there.

Who all is above Faber in the UFC?
I'd rate the Lightweights in the UFC
1. Penn
2. Sherk
3. Huerta
4. Florian (i despise this individual)
5. toss up... Edgar, Maynard and a bunch of others...

Faber is small for the UFC, but could pull it off.
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Logan_Clark
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Quote:
 
I'm not saying that Faber is a minor league fighter but that he would not be top 5 in UFC, IMO.

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC, however like the MLB minor leagues there are some players that could make for solid MLB players or need more experience to make it there.


It would be tough for Faber since the UFC doesn't even have his weight class, and your statement shows a lot of ignorance in that regard. There are very few featherweights in the world who can compete with Faber.

The WEC is designed to showcase faster paced fights, hence the inclusion of 135, 145 and absence of heavyweights. They are still signing a lot of top prospects who could compete in the UFC but make more sense to use in the WEC since 155, 170, and 205 are already so filled with huge numbers of guys. The WEC needs to build their own stars, so some extremely talented guys are signing with them including a bunch of wrestlers like Jake Rosholt, Johny Hendricks, and Mark Munoz (all of whom will be fighting on Sept 10th).
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TheWombat
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I think it would be interesting to see Faber fight some of the UFC lightweights at featherweight, such as Frankie Edger, Kenny Florian, or Hermes Franca all of whom would be comfertable at this weight, Clay Guida, Tyson Griffen, Kurt Pelligrino, and Manny Gamburian may also be able to fight at 145. Because of this I don't think Faber is the best 145 pound fighter in the world, everyone else is just following te money.
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Logan_Clark
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Faber lost to Tyson Griffin by decision before he started fighting at featherweight, so he would probably do the same thing as most UFC lightweights and either win or lose a decision to most other guys.
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CropDuster
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Logan_Clark
Jul 29 2008, 02:24 PM
Quote:
 
I'm not saying that Faber is a minor league fighter but that he would not be top 5 in UFC, IMO.

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC, however like the MLB minor leagues there are some players that could make for solid MLB players or need more experience to make it there.


It would be tough for Faber since the UFC doesn't even have his weight class, and your statement shows a lot of ignorance in that regard. There are very few featherweights in the world who can compete with Faber.

The WEC is designed to showcase faster paced fights, hence the inclusion of 135, 145 and absence of heavyweights. They are still signing a lot of top prospects who could compete in the UFC but make more sense to use in the WEC since 155, 170, and 205 are already so filled with huge numbers of guys. The WEC needs to build their own stars, so some extremely talented guys are signing with them including a bunch of wrestlers like Jake Rosholt, Johny Hendricks, and Mark Munoz (all of whom will be fighting on Sept 10th).

I think what we're getting at, is that if Faber went up to 155 and fought in the UFC, how good would he be?
I'm excited for the Sept. 10th card. Hendricks (being a wrestler from OKST, I might actually be able to cheer for him now.) Rosholt, and I heard Shane Roller?
Isn't Faber fighting on this card as well?
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Logan_Clark
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Quote:
 
I think what we're getting at, is that if Faber went up to 155 and fought in the UFC, how good would he be?


I understand that. I am simply saying that isn't fair to him as a fighter. You can't say, "oh, he is in the minor leagues of the UFC" when he is actually competing in the highest level organization for his weight class in the U.S. And I am correct that he would simply go to a decision with most top guys in the decision. Penn would finish him but not m/any others.

Faber is fighting Mike Brown at that event. Brown will actually be the hometown boy since the event with be in Florida.

Quote:
 

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC


An additional thought related to this comment. The UFC has diluted their rankings a fair amount by including a lot of TUF fighters with regularity. These newer guys are not better than the majority of fighters in the WEC or other comparable orgs, but they are allowed to continue in the UFC, which weakens the overall product.

I have a few tiers of organizations rather than a basic ranking. This is how I rank organizations as a fan in the U.S., so I give weight to exposure within our market. Oh, and both Bodog and the IFL are officially dead, so I won't be tiering those.

Tier 1: UFC, DREAM, WEC, EliteXC

Each of these has a number of positive and negative aspects. Example: WEC needs to produce more events, while DREAM needs to expand beyond being broadcast only on HDnet.

Tier 2: World Victory Road, Affliction, Strikeforce

World Victory Road needs a domestic tv deal to get to the top tier (but they do pay well, hehe). Affliction needs to put on an event that makes money and is seen by more than a few thousand people. Strikeforce is supposed to start doing a show every month, so they have the opportunity to move up.

Tier 3: DEEP, Shooto, Maximum Fighting Championship, Cage Rage, Icon Sport

The first two are big orgs in Japan that don't have heavier weight classes or domestic tv deals. The last three all put on good fights but don't get much for depth. The MFC and maybe Cage Rage are both on HDnet though.

Tier 4 (Local Promotions): Brutal, UCS, Fight Nation, MaxFights, Seconds Out
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CropDuster
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Logan_Clark
Jul 30 2008, 10:43 AM
Quote:
 
I think what we're getting at, is that if Faber went up to 155 and fought in the UFC, how good would he be?


I understand that. I am simply saying that isn't fair to him as a fighter. You can't say, "oh, he is in the minor leagues of the UFC" when he is actually competing in the highest level organization for his weight class in the U.S. And I am correct that he would simply go to a decision with most top guys in the decision. Penn would finish him but not m/any others.

Faber is fighting Mike Brown at that event. Brown will actually be the hometown boy since the event with be in Florida.

Quote:
 

WEC is like a minor league in that most of the fighters there couldn't make it in the UFC


An additional thought related to this comment. The UFC has diluted their rankings a fair amount by including a lot of TUF fighters with regularity. These newer guys are not better than the majority of fighters in the WEC or other comparable orgs, but they are allowed to continue in the UFC, which weakens the overall product.

I have a few tiers of organizations rather than a basic ranking. This is how I rank organizations as a fan in the U.S., so I give weight to exposure within our market. Oh, and both Bodog and the IFL are officially dead, so I won't be tiering those.

Tier 1: UFC, DREAM, WEC, EliteXC

Each of these has a number of positive and negative aspects. Example: WEC needs to produce more events, while DREAM needs to expand beyond being broadcast only on HDnet.

Tier 2: World Victory Road, Affliction, Strikeforce

World Victory Road needs a domestic tv deal to get to the top tier (but they do pay well, hehe). Affliction needs to put on an event that makes money and is seen by more than a few thousand people. Strikeforce is supposed to start doing a show every month, so they have the opportunity to move up.

Tier 3: DEEP, Shooto, Maximum Fighting Championship, Cage Rage, Icon Sport

The first two are big orgs in Japan that don't have heavier weight classes or domestic tv deals. The last three all put on good fights but don't get much for depth. The MFC and maybe Cage Rage are both on HDnet though.

Tier 4 (Local Promotions): Brutal, UCS, Fight Nation, MaxFights, Seconds Out

Quite knowledgable Mr. Clark...
He is a great fighter, we were only wondering how he would do at 155 in the UFC, not saying he should go there, or that he is less of a fighter for not doing so. Atleast thats not how i meant to come off...
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Logan_Clark
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I'll tell Urijah that you are sorry.
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CropDuster
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ha thanks...
don't want 145lbs of brute toughness mad at me haha.
Say, speaking of pay and orgs... How does the UFC and WEC compare in pay?

People consider the WEC a minor leage of sorts, when really, they just showcase lower weights. Their strength is having good fights through the lighter, more action weights (i seem to think there is almost more action, and more things that grab my attention in lightweight bouts). The UFC strength is obvoiusly having a deep talent pool and large scale marketing.
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XHockeyDad
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It would be great hearing Logan's opinion as he is the one most impacted by all of this.

I personally believe that a fighter shouldn't get paid less than 15k a fight...6 weeks of training, paying gym dues, corner men, and training partners will absorb have the purse right there.

Although I have followed the UFC since UFC 1 and I truly respect what Dana and his posse has done for the sports growth, I find it hard to respect their efforts when I see fighter getting paid 6k to compete on a show at this level.
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XHockeyDad
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Doh...never mind...I just saw Logan's opinions stated above...sometimes work impacts my abilitly to catch up on my guillotine consumption :D :D :D

But still, Logan what's the word on a fighters union.....I know Tito was involved in getting something started, but I have heard nothing lately....
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CropDuster
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Agreed. They are going to lose the high profile fighters, and others are going to pass up if they dont start making it worth their time. Dana has to be more flexible.

Also, with the death of the IFL, I wonder what will happen with Chris Horodecki (sp?). He seemed young with lots of potential... hope he ends up somewhere soon.
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XHockeyDad
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Chris Horodecki does seem to have a lot of upside to him...it would be interesting to see how he would do against a Spencer Fisher, Nate Diaz, Frankie Edgar, Kenny Florian, Roger Huerta, Sean Sherk, BJ Penn, Thiago Tivares, Gleison Tiabau, Gray Maynard, Kurt Pellegrino...yikes the list just goes on and on....I wonder if the UFC has contacted him?
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CropDuster
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I definitely think he could hold his own... and in a few years... the sky is the limit.
I hope he has gotten contacted by someone... so young with so much potential.
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