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| Faber Debate; We'll Move It To A Seperate Thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 11 2008, 07:08 AM (885 Views) | |
| CropDuster | Jun 11 2008, 07:08 AM Post #1 |
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Faber would undoubtedly be a Top 5 Fighter in the Lightweigtht Division of the UFC... Right now it goes: 1. BJ Penn 2. Sean Sherk 3. Kenny Florian 4. Roger Huerta 5. Toss Up I see Faber beating KenFlo, maybe Huerta. (I am excited to see that fight in August) He would hold his own against Sherk. He just beat the crap out of Pulver, who has been very successful in this division, and it hasn't changed a lot since he left the UFC... |
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| D.O'Neill | Jun 11 2008, 09:20 PM Post #2 |
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I don't think so. He doesn't even fight at lightweight. You are leaving out so many names. Tyson Griffon KO'd Faber so where does he rank?
This part I don't even understand at all. Pulver got demolished by BJ Penn and he lost to Joe Lauzon in 06 via KO round 1. Before that he hadn't fought in the UFC since 02. Not too successful IMO. |
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| CropDuster | Jun 12 2008, 04:19 AM Post #3 |
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In all seriousness, Pulver got caught in the Lauzon fight. Plver didnt get beat that bad by BJ considering his Jiu-Jitsu was far more superior. I'm not going to argue Pulver is one of the best, but he wasn't exactly a slouch. Faber would be undersized, of course. He beat Pulver, Penn beat Pulver, Lets Throw those two out there. The Tyson Griffin Fight was a TKO like, 3 years ago. If we're going to pull that crap, we can say Sherk didn't deserve a title fight based on the fact that he lost to Georges St-Pierre in 05. You can take those stats lightly, but not base everything off 3 years ago. If losing one fight takes you out of it, then Sherk shouldn't be in the top five, him or Penn. Tyson is a great fighter, so its not like he lost to a slouch either. Faber would hold his own in the UFC... even if undersized. |
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| Mcrow | Jun 12 2008, 09:07 AM Post #4 |
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Wrestling Goon
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The bottomline: Faber has only beaten one good fighter, Pulver. Pulver is only a slightly above average UFC fighter who has on a rare occaison performed well against good fighters but still lost. Losses in MMA don't always mean much, you can have a quite a few losses and still be a very good fighter if you have fought tough competition. here are a number of fighters I'd rank above Faber: Tyson Griffin: TKO'd Faber Sean Sherk Roger Heurta B.J. Pen Din Thomas Kenny Florian These 6 I think would beat him for sure. |
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| D.O'Neill | Jun 12 2008, 10:44 AM Post #5 |
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Super Fan
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and Matt Wiman and Thiago Tavers and Clay Guida and Gray Maynard and Joe Stevensen and Hermes Franca. Maybe even Frankie Edgar too. I'm not saying they would beat him for sure, but I'd put my money on them over Faber anyday. I don't see how you could say BJ Penn didn't destroy Jens in the rematch. He was tottally outclassed in every aspect of the fight. And you talk about Tyson Griffin TKOing Faber being 3 years ago and how it shouldn't matter, and then talk about Jens being so good in the UFC, when his last win in the UFC was in 2002. It just doesn't add up. Him being caught by J-Lau is very argueable as well. I don't even understand the point you are trying to make about Sherk not being in the top 5 UFC lightweights when clearly he is. He lost to GSP at welterweight... Then beat Nick Diaz at welterweight... dropped to 155 and beat Ken-Flo and Hermes Franca. |
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| Mcrow | Jun 12 2008, 12:36 PM Post #6 |
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Wrestling Goon
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I agree those guys all have a pretty good chance of beating Faber. |
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| CropDuster | Jun 12 2008, 02:14 PM Post #7 |
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The fact that i'm so confused about this topic is why i'll sound rediculous when i post this, even moreso then other posts. Basing wins and losses off other wins and losses is not worth the time put into it. Now that i rewatched BJ-Pulver2 i see that maybe it is more lopsided then i previously believed. I was pulling for Penn, so i didn't really notice. My point about the aged results was that you shouldn't count loses from 3 years ago, and the fact taht Pulver wasn't that great as of late compared to his olde days was a good point. I agree Sherk is, but you originally based your argument on the fact that Faber lost to Tyson Griffin meant he couldn't hang with the UFC Lightweights. He lost that 3 years ago by TKO. Sherk also lost like 3 years ago, and therefore, under your argument Sherk wouldn't be as qualified either. Hermes fight counts still? I'm not a die-hard Faber fan, but why all the hatin'? |
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| D.O'Neill | Jun 12 2008, 03:34 PM Post #8 |
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Super Fan
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Why wouldn't Hermes count? He's supposed to be fighting at UFC 87. There is no way Faber could do to him, what Sherk did to him. Sherks loss was at WELTERWEIGHT. He now fights at LIGHTWEIGHT now. I honestly don't get what a loss a weightclass up would have to do with his ranking at lighteweight regardless of how long ago it happend. Especially when its a loss to someone like GSP. Its like he lost to some no-namer. I never said Faber coulnd't "hang" with UFC lightweights, what I meant to say he wouldn't be top 5, maybe not even top 10. I'm not hating on him at all, just completly disagreeing with you saying he would be a top 5 lightweight in the UFC. That weightclass is very very competitive. |
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| CropDuster | Jun 13 2008, 07:13 AM Post #9 |
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Well, i'm going to concede on the fact that ya'll got WAY better information then me... i just like ruffling feathers. I'm not even that big of fan of Faber... i think he'd atleast be top 15, and after some bulking and a few years, could rise to the top. Don't know how old he is, but it could happen. Hermes and Sherk juiced, does that count on their record or not? |
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| Mcrow | Jun 13 2008, 08:49 AM Post #10 |
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Wrestling Goon
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I don't know that anyone is hating. Just because we don't think he is nearly as good as you think he is does not mean we don't think he is a bad fighter. I would say that he is a top 10 maybe 12 fighter. The fact is that he is fighting weaker competition than all of the top fighters in the UFC. Until he beats some of the better fighters he can't be considered top 5. Plus, he would probably be the smallest of the guys in the top 10. Yeah, skill and ability make more of a difference than size does but at the top of the divison there is little room for error and giving someone that sort of weight or reach advantage will catch up with him. |
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| LIVEWELL | Jun 13 2008, 09:32 AM Post #11 |
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A couple of weeks ago i was extremely impressed with M. Torres @ 135lbs. when he fought on "VS". If Faber cut five pounds to 140 and Torres bumped up five to 140 I think Torres would more then hold his own and would have an excellent chance at beating Faber. I'm new to this so let me know if i'm crazy for thinking this. Faber has a great "motor" but Torres just seems to keep coming and has extremely heavy hands for his size. |
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| Sprawl-N-Brawl | Jun 13 2008, 07:40 PM Post #12 |
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im with livewell on that one... Torres vs. faber would be something to watch... Comparing fighter to fighter doesnt get anybody anywhere unless they get out there and fight... Faber is good... To small for 155.. I have heard in his interviews that he barely cuts any weight to make 145... and guys like BJ cut a fair amount of weight... to much size to give up if u are trying to label him as a top five fighter... i would love to see him up at 155... he would let people know that they were in a fight... just not sure it would be his hand getting raised |
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| BoMb- | Jun 16 2008, 02:18 PM Post #13 |
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You guys are giving Sherk FAR to much credit. Sure, he's a wrestler from MN, but his wrestling isn't even that great compared to the world class wrestling that there is in the UFC. He doesn't have any significant or recent victories that would put him in top 10 world, or top 5 in the UFC. Faber didn't look great, but pulver also looked vastly improved over his past performances. Pulver hasn't really been tested against a very strong opponent, but he has DESTROYED everybody else that was put against him. Faber is at least top 5, but he shouldn't get the top spot till he beats somebody big. |
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| D.O'Neill | Jun 17 2008, 05:04 PM Post #14 |
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Super Fan
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To honestly say that Faber would be a top 5 155'er in the UFC is ridiculous. |
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| cledis | Jun 23 2008, 04:57 PM Post #15 |
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Fantastic
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FABER can beat ANYONE at his weight. |
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