Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to The Guillotine Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.

If you join our community, you'll be able to use many member-only features such as posting messages, customizing your profile, sending personal messages, voting in polls, and fewer ads.

Email forum@theguillotine.com to find out how to get an account.

If you're already a member please log in:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
minnesota teams
Topic Started: Jun 11 2008, 07:57 AM (1,543 Views)
aftershock101
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I think it's about time they rethink how wrestlers make these teams. I feel there needs to be a point system set up. X number of pts for 1st,2nd and so on at the state tourneyment and only the State Freestyle and Greco tourney. Who ever has the most combined pts makes the team. Then post pts results so everyone knows who has what. I know some times you get a bad draw, but who doesn't.

This would encourage wrestlers to wrestle both styles at state. Beside they need to wrestle both styles anyway at these team duals.

I've hear several complants at and before Grand Forks last week end.(at all levels) And I must admit that our club has been on both sides of whos going and whos is left out. I know I don't know both sides of all the stories and roomers, but all roomer normaly have some insight of truth.

And a side note, I know there was a lot of good ref-ing at Grandforks and a little horsepoop ref-ing, but if you don't like the way they ref, stepup to the plate and voliteer next year.

I though the Minnesota boy's look assume last week end.

jason rothers
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
twigboy
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]


The Schoolboy team rules clearly states that only the state champs are assured a spot after that it is up to the coaches to fill the roster. It isn't a good old boys club who pick their kids friends. THEY pick the wrestlers who THEY beleive will fill the holes that THEY think need filling. They are investing alot of their own personal time and energy to assure Minnesota puts the team on the mat they think will have the best chance at top results. The coaches of this years team go to most of the tournaments, they watch as many of the kids as they can, they ask about wrestlers who are on the fence, basicly, they are scouting from April till June. I think they do a great job and use pretty good judgement.

You know as well as I do that like any other team or any other sport they can't please everyone, especially parents.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stmabooster
No Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The people to talk to if you feel that way is the Mn/USA board of directors. I think if you came up with some reasonable way of making the selection process more objective, they might listen. Right now, the objective part is state champs are automatically invited and everyone else is selected based on how the coaches think the kids will do to help make the team compete well.
Remember, every objective rule that we mandate to the coaching staff causes the staff to lose control of how best to fill a team's needs. What if a kid was injured during the season and couldn't compete in many of the tournaments but was an obvious "hammer" that we really need on the team? Or what if a kid likes to wrestle fat and happy during the opens and state but is willing to cut for a national dual tournament and really fits the team well when he is cut down? The more rules we mandate to the coaching staff the less flexibility they have.
I'm not saying which way is right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that every rule or mandate has consequences. I do believe that these events have become very popular and that the selection process needs to be well understood and very visible.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hibbing85
No Avatar
Super Fan
[ *  *  *  * ]
Well put booster! The system will always have some drawbacks, however the coaches do have the best interest of the kids and the team in mind.

Aftershock- Looking at the selection process is always good to do...that is how progress is made.. How can I go about becoming a ref?? I'm new to the sport and I know I would enjoy getting more involved.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
aftershock101
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I realize that coaches are putting in a lot of time and do a great job. That is not what I am questioning. I feel that there could be better process that could make it not so subjective.

One question. If a wrestler gets hurt at sectionals does he get to wrestle at state, even if he is the best wrestler in the state. No, it is unfortunite, but that is the way it is.

Now for a kid who wrestles both styles and has a good weekend should get rewarded for job well done. Even if a good draw is involved.

And I'm not complaining as a parent. My son didn't wrestle as well as he would have like, but that is the way it goes. Lesson learned, I hope.

And I wasn't necessarly talking about just schoolboys.




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Obsessed With Wrestling
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
You could come up with what seems to be the best process ever and someone would still complain.
Bottom line we have some of the best cadet and junior coachs in the nation coaching our teams and I think they know what they are doing. Not to mention volunteering a ton of time.
Maybe it's not perfect, but it's pretty darn good.

Here's a junior example: Jake D. did not wrestle at junior GR/FS state, are you not going to put him in the #1 spot on your team?
There are alot of cases like this, especially with the cadet and junior teams.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jfjjames
No Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
My belief is you should attend state to be able to participate in the Duels from there I agree the top placer earned there right to be on the first team and so on. Just my opinion. I feel that the guys that put in the hard work go.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Obsessed With Wrestling
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Jfjjames
Jun 11 2008, 07:30 PM
My belief is you should attend state to be able to participate in the Duels from there I agree the top placer earned there right to be on the first team and so on. Just my opinion. I feel that the guys that put in the hard work go.

So you wouldn't put Deitchler on your first team because he didn't attend state? He's not working hard elsewhere?
You just can't do this with these age groups, these guys have many other things going on in their lives like jobs, graduation, college visits, etc. Just because they didn't attend state doesn't mean they aren't practicing and working hard.
For example the day of junior greco state was one of the big testing days for ACTS and many couldn't attend because of that, do you leave these wrestlers out?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lilmatdog
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I can't remember but wasn't Jake attending some national tournament that weekend? I would say he would have had to work very hard to show well at that.

Bottom line is anyone who is serious about their summer wrestling is working hard.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jfjjames
No Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Im not saying Jake is not working hard I think Jake is one of the hardest workers there is and one of the best wrestlers that the State of Minnesota has ever had. It certainly was no Knock to Jake ,Im an avocate of his wrestling ability to ,but how do you tell somebody who has won the 152 pound weight class at state that they can not be part of the team.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lilmatdog
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
We might be arguing a moot point since I thought the Champs were automatic and the coaches were filling out the rest of the roster and they were taking 2 at each weight.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
aftershock101
No Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I was refering more to the kids. And yes, if you plan work, acts or family vecation on the same day as state it becomes your choice. I do believe they have acts and vication on more than one date? You do have me in a box on Jake. However; wrestling a national tourney or even a regional tourney could carry weight in a point system in a given time period.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
crdirector
Member Avatar
Fanatic
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I would like more emphasis put on the Greco/ Freestyle season in the decision making progress. I have seen many cases where a HS state placewinner is chosen over a Greco/ Freestyle placewinner based on the HS results. There are some kids who style suits them better in the spring than in the HS season. They have been left behind come duals time or put on the 2nd team to a HS "State Champ" who they consistantly beat in GR or FS.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
heavyweightdad
Member Avatar
Fantastic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Regarding all 3 duals levels, SB cadet and JR:
I think the coaches want to win, period. They will take the best kids to make this happen. Is it always fair? NO.
I agree with CR director that HS FOLK placing shouldn't have a bearing on the FS/GR team. I agree some kids are far better at one style over the other. Also, we should be encouraging participation in opens, and all regional/state tourneys. The state champ (auto seleted) in GR/FS rule is good, and I think the others should be chosen by a combination of ability, AND participation. Some kids have attended ZERO opens, state, regions, and others attend everything. Some cadets/jrs have attended MANY regionals to open up MORE roster spots for MORE MN kids in Fargo...These are the "alternates/extra" kids I would pick over the kids who don't participate in tourneys. Yes, missing a major one due to ACT/family members graduation, etc. WILL happen. However, the pattern of attending as much as you can should come into play. Missing 1-2 events shouldn't disqualify anyone, but not showing up at all? To anything? That kid should be way down on the choice list, IMO. Kids should be rewarded for a combination of performance and participation.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Club/Freestyle/Greco-Roman · Next Topic »
Add Reply