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| 2AA Team & Individuals; Top contenders | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 23 2008, 11:03 AM (737,840 Views) | |
| crusader wrestling | Oct 6 2008, 09:29 AM Post #121 |
Fanatic
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I havn't seen Matt since mid-summer, but I think he will still be a little undersized this year. Last year, Matt did a great job for WML @ 103, wrestling the majority of the 103 matches for WML. This year, I think he's got a great shot to qualify for state. I think he's going to have a very good season, then again, I'm bias and a big Elsenpeter fan. |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 6 2008, 04:31 PM Post #122 |
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Fantastic
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Who are Delano's studs? I dont see a single stud in their lineup. |
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| yub | Oct 6 2008, 08:49 PM Post #123 |
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Super Fan
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Big Pappa 11 Well Hessing did get to the X and Sowers is a very solid wrestler whos been there before .They may not have what you would call studs but they should be a top contender. Besides if you have three studs and the rest are all scrubs who wins . The team thats has more 70 % wrestlers throw in one or two 90%ers its a route . The last time I looked it took more than 4 studs For example ( WT/M/ML vs SW "08" sec 2 AA finals) to beat a solid team. As a Watertown Fan its painfully clear to me a solid TEAM usually wins a team compition . So what does your favored team look like and how many statistical studs do they have ? |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 6 2008, 11:26 PM Post #124 |
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Fantastic
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Are you trying to say that Delano will have two wrestlers go 33-3 during the regular season? Scott West has two studs, and the rest of the line up is more balanced than delano. |
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| yub | Oct 7 2008, 04:17 AM Post #125 |
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Its possible ! I can't say for shure ,and could you be any more vague ? You might as well be Nostradumas after it happens you'll call it a prediction . Who ? What ? How come ? Are you saying Goldberg, and KIvel are the studs and everyone else are 70 %ers please Tell us . |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 7 2008, 05:35 AM Post #126 |
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Didn't a Delano "non-stud wrestler" (your words) pin one of your Scott West studs in team sections last year, earning his team 6 points (a possible 12 point swing) and provided them some with some valuable momentum? Didn't two of your Scott West "balanced wrestlers", (your words) slow down two of Watertown’s studs last year in their losses, not give up any bonus points and provide thier team with some valuable momentum? The point being, is regardless of the number of studs that a team has or doesn't have, or how many wrestlers a team has returning from last years individual state tournament, it comes down to a over all team effort. It's about winning at least those 7 matches (doesn't really matter which one) and not giving up more bonus points in your loses than you score in your wins. I think Delano has enough depth, experience and talent to win this year. I'm also sure thier coach will do a great job getting his team prepared. Besides Scott West and Delano, I think there are some other teams in sec. 2AA who have similar depth and talent to also win this year. |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 7 2008, 11:27 AM Post #127 |
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Fantastic
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Everybody gets caught sometimes... And Yub I highly doubt Delano will have anyone go 33-3, unless they wrestle a completely worthless schedule. Kivel and Goldberg are the studs. The rest of the lineup is balanced with maybe one or two holes, im not sure. |
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| yub | Oct 7 2008, 06:17 PM Post #128 |
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Super Fan
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So your positive Goldberg will go 33-3 or better ? maybe if he wrestles a worthless Schedule at 103 . Kivel we both know will kick butt no argument there. |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 7 2008, 07:44 PM Post #129 |
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Fantastic
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I never said Goldberg will go 33-3 this year. I would consider him a stud because he placed in state. He had a good record last year, even though he wrestled an extremely tough schedule. |
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| yub | Oct 7 2008, 08:41 PM Post #130 |
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Big Poppa11 So really dispite your need to argue , we basically agree . A team with mostly 70 % wrestlers and in your words "a couple of studs". Could win section 2 AA like Scottwest , Delano or maybe another solid team ect.... It seems though you hold other teams to a higher standard . |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 7 2008, 09:56 PM Post #131 |
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Fantastic
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I dont agree with you when you say that Delano has two studs, let alone one. I do agree that a balanced team with a couple studs will win section 2AA this year. Delano has a lot to prove yet, they're still young. Maybe Sowers can stay healthy this year, and maybe a couple other guys can step it up. But until then there are no studs on that team. |
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| Quest41 | Oct 7 2008, 10:37 PM Post #132 |
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Super Fan
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I guess that depends on what your definition of what a stud is. Do they need to be state entrants, state placers, or actual state champs? My opinion is that Delano will have a very good team. Oh and the stud thing, they do have a few of them also. |
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| sitandspin | Oct 8 2008, 07:20 AM Post #133 |
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You really need a couple of studs, 2 or 3 that will place at state (1st - 3rd). About 6-7 wrestlers that are 20-10 or better and the rest 15-15 or better. If you have close to those ratios you should compete every year. The coaching decisions on matchups can be critical to a dual meet. Being able to move those studs around and having depth at certain weight classes can determine who wins. The coin flip seems trivial, but if a coach has studied the matchups and figured a way to win, then the coin flip can decide it. Example, AV vs. Montini at the Clash last year, AV lost the coin toss and lost the dual, it was that critical. |
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| Quest41 | Oct 8 2008, 10:23 AM Post #134 |
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Super Fan
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Looks like a good breakdown or recipe for team success, but I would say many times those on the podium at state could be in a different order on a different day therefore the team would benefit to the same degree in cases where they don't finish top 3. |
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| Wrestler0001 | Oct 8 2008, 10:57 AM Post #135 |
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A good high school wrestling team does not need "studs" to win. They need a solid line-up with a chance to win at every weight. I think Delano has that. They aren't "weak" at any weights. All their guys have a chance at pulling out an upset in any given match. I'm not saying they are good enough to beat Scott West, but I am stating that they have a solid line-up and will compete for the 2AA title this year. I'd watch out for 4-5-6 state qualifiers off the Delano team this year. |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 8 2008, 11:19 AM Post #136 |
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Fantastic
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Please show me the last section 2AA championship team that didnt have a stud. My opinion of a stud is someone who places in state or has placed in state. |
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| truthhurts | Oct 8 2008, 01:21 PM Post #137 |
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Super Fan
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So every team that does not have a place winner might as well just give up now . You don't have a chance cause the season means nothing . I'll bet Scottwest coaches don't think that way . |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 8 2008, 01:55 PM Post #138 |
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Section 2AA Team Champions *2008-Scott West only had "1" state place winner from the previous year. 2006-Scott West had "0" state place winners from the previous year. I didn't go beyond 2006 (no need to/point proven) as I'm sure there are others. Big Poppa-Shall we continue this pointless debate as to whether a team must have a wrestler(s) whom placed in state from the previous year (your definition of what a stud is) in order to win the team section title the following year? *Technically, there was "2", but I did not include Tim Henteges in the total, because he did not wrestle in the team section duals in order to help Scott West win the section team title in 2008. |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 8 2008, 04:44 PM Post #139 |
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Fantastic
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Take a second to read my previous post one more time. 2008 Scott West had 3. Valek, Kivel, Goldberg 2007 JCC had 4....Von Ohlen, Stewart, Rutt, Lines 2006 Scott West had 3...Pudwill, Valek, Eischens 2005 Scott West had 3...Dominic Dvorak, John Dvorak, Jacob Roberts Im not saying a team without a state placewinner wont win, but it is highly unlikely. |
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| sitandspin | Oct 8 2008, 07:20 PM Post #140 |
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I guess I was referring to a State Championship. You maybe can qualify without a couple of studs, but most the teams at state are going to have them. It would be interesting to see if a team has won state without having 2 guys or more on the team that did not place in the top 3 individually. Like I said before, the flexibility that the studs give you if played right is hard to overcome. |
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| Wrestler0001 | Oct 8 2008, 09:19 PM Post #141 |
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Member
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I'm telling you right now that Delano will have at least 3 qualify for the state tournament. Delano has the right coaching staff to have their kids peak at the right time. I also feel that Scott West's coaches do an amazing job prepping their kids for the tournament as well and will also have multiple qualifiers. Should make for a fun Section tournament. Where and When is individual's this year? and team? |
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| BigPoppa11 | Oct 9 2008, 12:58 AM Post #142 |
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Fantastic
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Im not quite sure on the location and date of the tournaments. But you are right, it will be a fun tournament yet again this year. It seems like every year there is always a couple teams that will contend for the section championship. It really all comes down to who has a good day come the section tournament. |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 9 2008, 07:56 AM Post #143 |
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Fanatic
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Team Sections-Waconia Thurs. 2/19 & Sat. 2/21 (*Why two days now?) Indv. Sections-Delano Fri. 2/27 & Sat. 2/28 *I'm just curious if anyone (AD, section 2AA coach or someone in the know) would care to share why the team section tournament is going to be held over two days instead of just one? Who is driving this decision and why did it change from one day to two days? Was this discussed at some section meeting with the AD's? With todays economy, the decission to host this team tournament over two days "doubles" the out of pocket expenses (busing) that schools will now incure. Is this how we should be managing our schools budgets, doubling our expenses?? This decision does not make sense to me and I hope that someone from sec. 2AA will look into this. From a fans perspective, it's great to be able to watch all the teams and matches in just one day. Section 2AA should also be sensitive to the out of pockets they are now asking families to make with gas. No skin of my nose, because it's in my own back yard, but I'm sure there are others who would prefer driving once. I suppose, they will also charge everyone "twice" for tickets. |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 9 2008, 09:05 AM Post #144 |
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Answered my own question. Found this under the April 2008 section 2AA minutes: 6. Tournament Committee Report - S Euerle Ticket prices for wrestling if gym isn't cleared at individual. Discussion on clearing gym vs. raising ticket prices for individual & team wrestling. Motion by West to move quarterfinal wrestling matches for3AA and the first round matches for 2AA to Thursday Night at high seed. 2nd Chaska Passed 12-0 Thank you AD’s from Waconia, Hutch., New Prague, New Ulm and Mankato East for voting yes to do this. I know I’m getting a little off the thread topic, so I think I’m going to start a separate thread about this. |
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| Coach Ripley | Oct 9 2008, 09:26 AM Post #145 |
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Wrestling Fan
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crusader wrestling-- I will attempt to shed a little more information on this topic for you: 1. Section 2AA has always held a one-day Saturday Team Section Tournament (at least the 10 years that I have been here). 2. Each year at the Individual Tournament we have a Section Coaches meeting and the discussion of going to a two day tournament was brought forth by some members. Personally, I argued against it on the two accounts that you have brought forth at one time or another. #1--Gas Prices--for teams and fans and #2--Wrestlers having to make weight for two days and I also added that if we had to go to two days that it should be done on consecutive days, either Thursday-Friday or Friday-Saturday to give the wrestlers the one pound allowance. 3. A vote was taken by the coaches and the one day event was the clear winner. 4. We had the Section 2AA Team Tournament on our schedule as a one day event and then we were notified that it would be a two day tournament this past spring. 5. We notified all Section 2AA coaches via email and the majority were still interested in having a one day event for Team Sections. 6. Other than the vote that you have referenced, the only information that I have been given is that the host program, Waconia has a gym conflict on Saturday morning and therefore would not be able to host matches for the Section 2AA Wrestling Tournament at that time. 7. I do not agree with the decision for a two day tournament or on the process of how it came about. However, it is what it is and who knows maybe we will like this format better than the one that we had been using all of these past years. --Coach Ripley--Scott West |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 9 2008, 10:01 AM Post #146 |
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Coach Ripley- Thanks for the info. Now I'm even more upset after hearing that the section 2AA coaches voted to continue the 1 day event. I sent you a PM and will start a seperate thread. Hope you and the other 2AA coaches join in. |
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| Get it done | Oct 9 2008, 10:20 AM Post #147 |
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Wrestling Fan
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Perhaps Waconia should not have signed up to host if they do not have the facilities available - Probably too late in the process but I would rather see it moved to a different site that has the facilities available and could host in accordance with the format preference of the 2AA coaches. |
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| crusader wrestling | Oct 9 2008, 10:26 AM Post #148 |
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FYI-I just checked the Waconia School District "activates" schedule online for Sat., the only event listed is the wrestling tournament. Also checked the Community Education Calendar and no event listed either. So if that is accurate, there should not be a facility issue on Sat. in order to host a 1 one day event. And even if there was, shouldn't a section tournament take scheduling priority? On Friday, the High School does have basketball games scheduled, but those could/should be moved for any conflicts with a section tournament event, shouldn’t they? As Rickey Ricardo would say, "Seems like you have some explaining to do Lucy" (2AA AD's) |
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| truthhurts | Oct 9 2008, 11:48 AM Post #149 |
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Super Fan
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Bigpoppa 11 , I feel like I'm watching McCain or Obama , spin...... So lets review your statements (yes , I went back and read them all): 1) “Delano won’t win the section . One returning state participant isnt going to cut it.” 2) “Who are Delano's studs ? I dont see a single stud in their lineup” 3) "I would consider him a stud because he placed in state". 4) "Please show me the last section 2AA championship team that didnt have a stud". You first claim that Delano won't win the section, because they only have a single state particpant returning . Later , you state that Delano does not have any studs , but Scott West has two . Then you defined a stud as someone who has placed in state . And lastly , you ask for someone to show you the last section 2AA championship team that didn't have a stud (your definition of someone who had placed in state), which was your own SW team in 2006 . Biggpoppa , seems like you change your story or your interpetation to suite your needs. You might have a cararer in politics . -------------------- |
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| truthhurts | Oct 9 2008, 11:56 AM Post #150 |
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Super Fan
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What a bunch of CRAP ,This really puts some teams in a tough possition ,I hope they at least get a kiss before they get bent over .Maybe someone thinks putting this burden on traveling teams helps thier teams chances to win ? |
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