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Which format do you prefer for the upcoming Gladiator Tournament??
Combo tournament - up to 4 man round robin brackets - up to 6 matches - 3 greco & 3 free style 25 (69.4%)
Free style only - up to 8 man brackets - standard bracketology - match count depends on performance / number of wrestlers 11 (30.6%)
Total Votes: 36
What would you prefer as far as tournament format; St. Francis Tournament on April 21st
Topic Started: Apr 4 2012, 09:01 PM (1,570 Views)
TheOriginal CK
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All,

The St. Francis Gladiator Wrestling Board of Directors is concerned that the combo format for our upcoming tournament will lead to significantly reduced participation. They are considering a format change to a FS only tournament. What would you all in the wrestling community prefer.

It will be up to the board to make this decision, however, I thought it would be great feedback to see what format would be preferred.

the more feedback we get .... the better.

thanks you!!

St. Francis Wrestling
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TheOriginal CK
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One new Wrinkle ... if we go with FS only, we would try to add a Greco Clinic to be held between weigh-ins and wrestling - would that be desirable??
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KJO
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The Barbarian Club struggled with the same decision and we ultimately decided to go with the combo tournament that will be held on May 12th. I really like the combo formats becasue it gives kids that normally would not just do a stand alone Greco tournament exposure to try Greco and still do FS. The Greco numbers seem to have been on the decline over the past few years and I think the Combo Greco/FS events could help give Greco more exposure to youth wrestlers.
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anothermom
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Two thoughts on this:
1: having a combo day allows those from further away to only have to drive to the site once - that is a bonus in my book
2: on a more personal level - what about having a combo day but still allowing each wrestler to choose which styles they participate in - my son loves freestyle but has been nervous to compete in a Greco tourney, he would like to watch it once or twice first but we are not going to drive to a Friday night just for that, if we could go to a combo and just compete in freestyle, watch greco and not have to do both, he might actually be willing to go to a combo to watch first and then participate in the future - right now he refuses to even go to a combo due to the fact that all wrestlers must participate in both
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areuready
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anothermom
Apr 5 2012, 11:31 AM
Two thoughts on this:
1: having a combo day allows those from further away to only have to drive to the site once - that is a bonus in my book
2: on a more personal level - what about having a combo day but still allowing each wrestler to choose which styles they participate in - my son loves freestyle but has been nervous to compete in a Greco tourney, he would like to watch it once or twice first but we are not going to drive to a Friday night just for that, if we could go to a combo and just compete in freestyle, watch greco and not have to do both, he might actually be willing to go to a combo to watch first and then participate in the future - right now he refuses to even go to a combo due to the fact that all wrestlers must participate in both
On thought #2, we have the same issue. My son has tried Greco and doesn't like it, so the combo tournaments that reqire both styles
are unfortunately off our schedule. Requiring both styles is reducing the total # of wrestlers at those tournaments, but increasing
the total wrestling Greco only because it's required.
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cwillaert
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statsguy
Apr 5 2012, 01:37 PM
anothermom
Apr 5 2012, 11:31 AM
Two thoughts on this:
1: having a combo day allows those from further away to only have to drive to the site once - that is a bonus in my book
2: on a more personal level - what about having a combo day but still allowing each wrestler to choose which styles they participate in - my son loves freestyle but has been nervous to compete in a Greco tourney, he would like to watch it once or twice first but we are not going to drive to a Friday night just for that, if we could go to a combo and just compete in freestyle, watch greco and not have to do both, he might actually be willing to go to a combo to watch first and then participate in the future - right now he refuses to even go to a combo due to the fact that all wrestlers must participate in both
On thought #2, we have the same issue. My son has tried Greco and doesn't like it, so the combo tournaments that reqire both styles
are unfortunately off our schedule. Requiring both styles is reducing the total # of wrestlers at those tournaments, but increasing
the total wrestling Greco only because it's required.
Why do they dislike greco so much?
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noheadlocks
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If the board is opposed to the combo style format how about not having to wrestle both styles but still have both styles. Wrestle one or both, wrestler's choice. Perhaps the time to bracket would be too great, but I would think it could be done with some planning.

Having a clinic on Greco, put on by MN USA, would be very beneficial to increase the comfort level regarding this style of wrestling. It is not really that different and can be very beneficial to helping youth wrestlers in other styles. However, I believe there are some misconceptions and the clinic would help greatly.

What ever the final decision is I know my son will be there to have some fun, of course twice as much fun with the Greco :) .

Jay Anderson
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TheOriginal CK
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thanks for all you feedback ... I believe the board has decided to take the path of offering both and having it be optional for the kids to decide which style(s) to do. Sounds like FS will be first and then if kids want to stay and do greco it will be an option. I think there could be some challenge with bracketing but it shouldn't be too bad if kids make the style selection at initial registration. the board is comprised of thoughtful and caring people who want to do what is best for the club and to create the best opportunity for each wrestler. this seems like a good compromise.
Have a great day!
TOCK
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Tiny Tornado
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EDIT:

I've been thinking about this, and I feel it's a really bad idea to change the format of what a combo tournament is supposed to be-
it's a COMBO, period- if you choose to not do it the same way as it's been designed, then don't do it- run a freestyle tournament instead- but don't change the way the combo format has been, and should continue to be, which is greco first, freestyle 2nd, and everybody wrestles both styles- JMO


Edited by Tiny Tornado, Apr 7 2012, 04:23 PM.
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Tiny Tornado
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Statsguy,
I think I must disagree with you though- on what basis are you seeing that the combo tournaments are reducing the number of wrestlers attending ? Is it more the level of disinterest among the people in just your club or among the parents in your circle ?
sometimes the only difference between a club that really loves their greco, and one who doesn't, is the attitude of the coach(es)-
then again, I'm finding that more and more wrestlers do not actually belong to a club, which would also have a great effect on whether or not wrestlers are being taught greco alongside fs-

Edited by Tiny Tornado, Apr 6 2012, 09:21 AM.
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To many kids don't like greco because they don't like getting beat, and they know they will take some losses while they figure it out. If a kid doesn't get to caught up in the results he will have fun learning. Some kids make the excuse they don't wrestle upper body so they don't need to learn greco. These are the ones that get tossed, because while they aren't wrestling upper body their opponent may be. You don't always get to dictate the tie up or style so you better be proficient in all positions even the one you don't want to be in.
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aftershock101
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cwillaert
Apr 5 2012, 03:59 PM
statsguy
Apr 5 2012, 01:37 PM
anothermom
Apr 5 2012, 11:31 AM
Two thoughts on this:
1: having a combo day allows those from further away to only have to drive to the site once - that is a bonus in my book
2: on a more personal level - what about having a combo day but still allowing each wrestler to choose which styles they participate in - my son loves freestyle but has been nervous to compete in a Greco tourney, he would like to watch it once or twice first but we are not going to drive to a Friday night just for that, if we could go to a combo and just compete in freestyle, watch greco and not have to do both, he might actually be willing to go to a combo to watch first and then participate in the future - right now he refuses to even go to a combo due to the fact that all wrestlers must participate in both
On thought #2, we have the same issue. My son has tried Greco and doesn't like it, so the combo tournaments that reqire both styles
are unfortunately off our schedule. Requiring both styles is reducing the total # of wrestlers at those tournaments, but increasing
the total wrestling Greco only because it's required.
Why do they dislike greco so much?
That’s a very good question. IMO I like it a lot. And it will pays off for those who participate in it eventually. My son really enjoyed Greco more in the earlier year than freestyle, (do to the fact he couldn’t protect his legs) and have paid off several times at the high school level. Can’t count the number of times wrestlers went upper body with him only to find themselves on the short end of the stick( a little research goes a long ways) J.

Greco seems to teaches control, head placement, hip placement and good foot work plus many of the good matches are a one pts ordeal (double edge sword) teaches “stalling” or none action with control to preserve a one pts win.

I know a lot of kids that want to participate on the MN teams and Greco is part of those teams, I personally hope they keep it that way.

Also think that the miss perception that Greco only has throws and high pt dangerous maneuvers, which it does, but I rarely see them, in fact I see more in freestyle than Greco. Decent coaching and a little intelligence stop most of these high flying moves.

“Go big or go home” or was it “throw or be thrown” by coach Lexvold, schoolboy motto….. J. Man I miss that guy.
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Tiny Tornado
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what I don't like is going to a greco tournament, and hearing the coaches tell their beginners, "just throw a headlock...." :blink:

Edited by Tiny Tornado, Apr 7 2012, 04:23 PM.
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hockeymom
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I wish that for cadets and Jrs specifically they would ease up on the weight differential a bit and use some common sence when bracketing tourneys. Last year my son didn't go to a single tourney becuase he was a light Jr and USA rules don't allow flexibility with weights so we didn't bother going. This year he is 20 lbs heavier and still the same issue! Last night a kid drove all the way from Albert Lea to AV and another from Faribault to wrestle in a 2 man Bracket....my son was in the bracket above with a 3 man, the bracket below had 4. There was a ONE POUND difference between my son and the kid in the bracket below, yet the each got too small of a bracket...the weight difference between the lighter of the 2 man and the bigger of the 3 was 8 lbs...WHY couldn't they have made it a 5 man bracket? It would have been the ONLY one there (all the other weights were full 4 man RR) rather then send a kid back to AL with one match? I thought the point of open tourneys at the Cadet and JR level was to develop these kids for fargo and make them better....How can you get better with one match? Today, in FS wasn't much better, another 3 man bracket. 2 days...4 total matches...they need to fix this.
a Suggestion I would use would be a combo tourney on friday nights for just Cadets and Jrs, and kids only on Sat...have a greco clinic before the tourneys start. Little kids can't handle wrestling at 10:45pm and older kids would rather not get up at 6am on a Sat...
Edited by hockeymom, Apr 7 2012, 03:53 PM.
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Tiny Tornado
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let's let this topic return to it's original intent, which was to discuss the upcoming St francis tournament- it's an important issue

Edited by Tiny Tornado, Apr 7 2012, 04:39 PM.
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ScreamingYeti's
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Our club up north, the screaming yeti's, prefer to go to combo tournaments. Because it's the best bang for your buck. Also the parents and wrestlers can commit a day a lot easier than two. To give an example we had to leave at 11:00 Aclock Friday to make it for weigh-ins at apple valley. Also it's really hard to get table workers and officials for two days. It's was a mad scramble to get tables workers and official on saturday this weekend. You'll get more people doing Greco at combo tournaments but let's be smart, don't force them to do both. Have it a option! Don't ram it down there throat. How many people like to be forced into thing? I know I don't! If you build they will come.
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areuready
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TheOriginal CK
Apr 6 2012, 08:46 AM
thanks for all you feedback ... I believe the board has decided to take the path of offering both and having it be optional for the kids to decide which style(s) to do. Sounds like FS will be first and then if kids want to stay and do greco it will be an option. I think there could be some challenge with bracketing but it shouldn't be too bad if kids make the style selection at initial registration. the board is comprised of thoughtful and caring people who want to do what is best for the club and to create the best opportunity for each wrestler. this seems like a good compromise.
Have a great day!
TOCK
That sounds like a great format to try. Thanks.

To answer the question about why my son doesn't like greco, I believe it has to do with a combination of things mentioned above and the fact that he's still young. My concern is that if greco is "required" for freestyle tournaments then maybe he'll say he doesn't like fs.

There are 8 tournaments remaining on the MNUSA calendar, only 2 (3 with St. Francis) are not requiring greco and 1 of those is 90 miles from Mpls.
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CougarKILLA
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Keep both Free and Greco same day! Tons of us travel from St Cloud area and a two day Tournamnet cost is just out the roof! Have Freestyle first than Greco follows! Kids that are interested in Greco can watch or try after Freestyle..
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Tiny Tornado
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cougarKILLA;
don't worry, tournaments are never going to be seperated into cadets/jr's one day, and kids the next-( hockeymom was just venting about her son not receiving enough matches)

if a combo tournament is what is sanctioned, then you follow those guidelines, I don't believe you have the option to change them, nor should you-

statsguy;
I count three freestyle tournaments on the schedule:
Forest Lake
Stewartville
Prior Lake




Edited by Tiny Tornado, Apr 8 2012, 02:23 PM.
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areuready
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Tiny Tornado
Apr 8 2012, 01:35 PM
cougarKILLA;
don't worry, tournaments are never going to be seperated into cadets/jr's one day, and kids the next-( hockeymom was just venting about her son not receiving enough matches)

if a combo tournament is what is sanctioned, then you follow those guidelines, I don't believe you have the option to change them, nor should you-

statsguy;
I count three freestyle tournaments on the schedule:
Forest Lake
Stewartville
Prior Lake




According to the flyer, Prior Lake is a combo and limited to only 210 wrestlers.

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0026/6629/Barbarian_Meet.12.pdf
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Tiny Tornado
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I gotcha- I hadn't yet read the flyer
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