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Folkstyle in the Olympics; Could it happen?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 12:27 PM (3,459 Views)
Auggie4Life
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I just picked up on this article from March about FILA recognizing American Folkstyle as a traditional form of wrestling.

http://www.themat.com/section.php?section_id=3&page=showarticle&ArticleID=24845

It's probably a long ways from Olympic status yet, but you'd think it has a better shot then some forms of grappling. How cool would be it be to see folkstyle in the Olympics? I would really love to see an International Team Folkstyle tournament with college weights. It would probably be difficult, and "folkstyle" is really defined as the style of wrestling native to a particular region. Still, American Folkstyle is fast and exciting. Would be great to see on the International community would match up against us in our own style.
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CropDuster
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Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
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atlantachamp
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CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
I agree I like freestyle more then Folkstyle.I think they should implement freestyle rules into Folkstyle like the push out rule. That would element stalling.
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miket
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atlantachamp
Jul 31 2012, 05:42 PM
CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
I agree I like freestyle more then Folkstyle.I think they should implement freestyle rules into Folkstyle like the push out rule. That would element stalling.
Push outs do not eliminate stalling
Edited by miket, Jul 31 2012, 07:20 PM.
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atlantachamp
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miket
Jul 31 2012, 07:20 PM
atlantachamp
Jul 31 2012, 05:42 PM
CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
I agree I like freestyle more then Folkstyle.I think they should implement freestyle rules into Folkstyle like the push out rule. That would element stalling.
Push outs do not eliminate stalling
Doesn't it keep the wrestlers in the center of the mat rather then one always backing up. I just think they would have to wrestle more then running. That's just my opinion. Let's hear why you think push outs don't eliminate stalling. Am curious!
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Tiny Tornado
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I would HATE it- and I don't hate much
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hockeymom
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it would ONLY be ok if they added it as a 3rd style and in TEAM format! More chances for olympians...cool to see a team event.
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CropDuster
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atlantachamp
Jul 31 2012, 07:34 PM
miket
Jul 31 2012, 07:20 PM
atlantachamp
Jul 31 2012, 05:42 PM
CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
I agree I like freestyle more then Folkstyle.I think they should implement freestyle rules into Folkstyle like the push out rule. That would element stalling.
Push outs do not eliminate stalling
Doesn't it keep the wrestlers in the center of the mat rather then one always backing up. I just think they would have to wrestle more then running. That's just my opinion. Let's hear why you think push outs don't eliminate stalling. Am curious!
You didn't ask me... But I'll share some insight anyway. The push-out rule allows wrestlers to score without actually, necessarily being offensive. You say it prevents stalling. Do you also think that Metcalf wrestled with non-stop-offense? I don't, personally. He pushed people around until he could get a stall call in many cases. I just don't find people "pushing" as offense. I see a lot of high school kids get dinged with stalling because the other kid is running after them like a bull towards the out of bounds line, and the ref feels the need to call it. But is that wrestler trying to score? Or, is he trying to get a stalling call? The same sort of applies here. The "offensive" wrestler is merely pushing. He isn't being offensive. It has also allowed for athletes to hover the edge more, in some cases. A lot of times, I'd try to work my way to the edge and attempt moves. If I got caught, I was out of bounds. If you can get a guy to push you towards the edge, you can find a lot of openings and momentum, as well. In those cases, I'd see the "defensive" wrestler to be "stalling".

I guess it depends on one's interpretation of "stalling". Some think Jordan Oliver stalls. It's relative, I guess.
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Auggie4Life
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I don't like the push out rule becausee it takes away from exciting mat edge wrestling. Just because a wrestler is near the edge, it doesn't mean that he is stalling. There's a lot of strategy and changes in style near the edge of a mat. If a guy is really backing up, then yes, go ahead and give the other guy a point. With the push out rule, edge wrestling just becomes a sumo match.
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duckychavez
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CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
Right. You can't have folkstyle without riding time. :o
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Gator Fan
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It is funny how everyone doesn't like the stalling aspect of folkstyle, however, that is the whole point of Greco, stall...stall...stall

I don't understand how Greco has been so popular, just my opinion though
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1 TON
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I agree with Gator. Watched the trials and I don't think Byers scored in the first 1:30 of any period. Did he?

I prefer folkstyle, but would like to see push outs in folkstyle. There is stalling in folkstyle too, but in freestyle they stand the wrestlers up too fast.

To me Greco and Freestyle are less complete styles.

In my opinion the most pure form of wrestling would be winning by pin or submission.
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duckychavez
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I also prefer folkstyle maybe because that is what we are used to. Greco is almost unwatchable. Freestyle is ok, but I would still prefer to see a real OT where someone has to get a TD. Or at least a period of it anyway.

Get rid of riding time and that would help eliminate some of the boring folkstyle wrestling.
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CropDuster
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duckychavez
Aug 5 2012, 08:56 AM
CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
Right. You can't have folkstyle without riding time. :o
Oh the brilliance of taking 1 of my points, saying it isn't necessarily needed, than saying Folkstyle would be good in the Olympics... ^o)
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Tiny Tornado
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Greco is about pummeling, hand fighting, HEAD position, FEET position, HIP position while standing, etc-
-
it's supposed to be wrestled from the feet and it's NOT stalling- at no point are they
not doing something- I get it, you guys don't like it- good, better seats on the front row for me then :$
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 5 2012, 06:57 PM.
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meknowsalot
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Tiny Tornado
Aug 5 2012, 06:56 PM
Greco is about pummeling, hand fighting, HEAD position, FEET position, HIP position while standing, etc-
-
it's supposed to be wrestled from the feet and it's NOT stalling- at no point are they
not doing something- I get it, you guys don't like it- good, better seats on the front row for me then :$
I have followed wrestling for 30 years and been involved at many levels. I hate to rain on your parade, but Greco is a distant 3rd to freestyle and folkstyle in my book. I am amazed at all of you hating folkstyle. It is what we do in this country! By the looks of it we can't compete in greco, maybe we should just scrap that program and focus on getting folkstyle in the olympics. Greco has lots of strategy but no real action.
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duckychavez
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CropDuster
Aug 5 2012, 03:10 PM
duckychavez
Aug 5 2012, 08:56 AM
CropDuster
Jul 31 2012, 03:24 PM
Why would we want Folkstyle in the Olympics, when other countries don't compete in it? Personally, I love watching Russians and the like wrestle freestyle because it's explosive and dynamic. I really don't think they want to learn about boring-@$$ riding time and stand-ups. It's cool for America, but probably not necessary for the Olympics.

My 2 cents...
Right. You can't have folkstyle without riding time. :o
Oh the brilliance of taking 1 of my points, saying it isn't necessarily needed, than saying Folkstyle would be good in the Olympics... ^o)
When did I say it would be good in the Olympics? I said I prefer it to the other two and that I don't like riding time, which you don't need for folkstyle.

But it would be good in the Olympics, for the US at least.
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duckychavez
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Tiny Tornado
Aug 5 2012, 06:56 PM
Greco is about pummeling, hand fighting, HEAD position, FEET position, HIP position while standing, etc-
-
it's supposed to be wrestled from the feet and it's NOT stalling- at no point are they
not doing something- I get it, you guys don't like it- good, better seats on the front row for me then :$
Your right, pummeling and positioning is super exciting. How many TD are there in matches with two very good wrestlers? Cause I have seen next to 0.

If it is meant to be wrestled from their feet why is it decided on the mat (par terre) a majority of the time?
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Tiny Tornado
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I never said I hated folkstyle- just don't want to see it in the olympics- I think many americans don't like greco
because we always like to be in charge of everything, and don't like that WE don't get to decide
the rules-

pummeling and fighting for position are super exciting because you never know when one wrestler will catch
the other guy out of position, if he does then there's a takedown or throw - so FOR ME, it keeps me
on the edge of my seat because it could happen in a split second- it's ok if I never convince you to like it,
to each their own- B)
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 6 2012, 09:50 AM.
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Sharkey
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My thoughts on the subject...

I love watching wrestling. However, I'll be the first to admit that at the highest levels, it's boring. All styles are equally boring. Judo, greco, sambo, folkstyle, whatever, they're all boring.

Good wrestlers just neutralize each other, resulting in a boring, defensive sport.

I love wrestling [and I think we all love wrestling] because we care about who wins and appreciate how difficult the scoring manuevers actually are. Also, the guile and brute strength can't be matched in other sports. Wrestling is great! Boring at times, but great entertainment if you understand what the wrestlers are trying to do. It really helps if you are hoping one of the wrestlers wins.


I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but having wrestling fans argue about which style is more boring is a little funny. They're all boring unless you spend some time learning the rules and the wrestlers. A lot of us "like" folkstyle because we understand it and we have someone to cheer for. We all have teams we cheer for and against, regardless of who's wearing the singlet. We "get" folkstyle and that's what makes it awesome. Other people and other cultures "get" Greco or freestyle or judo or sumo or whatever. That's why they have 15,000 people show up to watch their wrestling, just like we do. Folkstyle isn't more exciting than other styles. It's just our style so we like it more.

We see this all the time in MMA. People who don't get wrestling or jiu-jitsu just want the referee to stand guys up and let them box. They don't understand it, so they don't like it.

In defense of Greco, it is the most popular form of wrestling worldwide and in my experience the style that non-wrestling people seem to appreciate and understand at a primal level the most.

Enjoying high level wrestling takes a little work and preparation. You can't just walk in the door or click the mouse and be entertained. You gotta know the wrestlers, the teams and the rules.
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Tiny Tornado
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ditto - thanks Sharkey
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CropDuster
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It's kinda like art... I couldn't be the slightest-entertained by some old dude's painting of a woman... But the Mona Lisa is mad popular.

Some people don't see the art in Greco. I can understand it.

But regardless, folkstyle doesn't belong in the Olympics. That's the real question, brought up by the OP.
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CalWarriorFan
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Tiny Tornado
Aug 6 2012, 09:49 AM
I never said I hated folkstyle- just don't want to see it in the olympics- I think many americans don't like greco
because we always like to be in charge of everything, and don't like that WE don't get to decide
the rules-

pummeling and fighting for position are super exciting because you never know when one wrestler will catch
the other guy out of position, if he does then there's a takedown or throw - so FOR ME, it keeps me
on the edge of my seat because it could happen in a split second- it's ok if I never convince you to like it,
to each their own- B)
I look at it more in how my wife reacts. I can find enjoyment out of watching Greco, but Greco is the least enjoyable to watch in my opinion. But my wife will make a point of trying to sit down and watch some wrestling with me from time to time and she sees why I enjoy the freestyle and the college folkstyle. But she was completely bored and lost when it came to the Greco because of all the 1-0 scores. Maybe you are right, maybe it is the American thing and that is why I sway the way I do. But having wrestling on for the Olympics is not going to grow the sport of wrestling in the USA in my opinion, because outside of the diehards that know what is going on, no one will sit down and watch the Greco tourney. They may watch the Freestyle. Also, all the different rules in Greco have made it very hard to follow at times. I just think about all the other Olympics sports that I have no idea about and I can watch them and pick up the rules fairing quickly and understand what is going on, you will not get that in Greco wrestling. The only other Olympic sport I caught that I didn't really understand what was going on was Equestrian.
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duckychavez
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Sharkey
Aug 6 2012, 10:09 AM


In defense of Greco, it is the most popular form of wrestling worldwide and in my experience the style that non-wrestling people seem to appreciate and understand at a primal level the most.
Similar to CalWarriorFan, my wife will watch a whole college duel with me on TV. She could watch about 30 seconds of Greco.

And just like tiny tornado can subjectively say that Greco is exciting for him, I can subjectively say that it is pretty boring.

I am in no way involved with freestyle either and I see it as far superior to Greco.


I still don't understand if greco is meant to be wrestled on your feet, as tiny tornado asserted, why so many periods and ultimately matches are decided on the mat. Someone said at Olympic trials Dremiel Byers never got a TD, I don't know if that is accurate though because I did not see all his matches.
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Tiny Tornado
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my son chose greco as his favorite many years ago, before he was even a cadet- so as his mom I started paying more attention to the rules- then of course they changed the rules, more than once-agreed, that hasn't helped the casual fan understand it better- all I can say is, if you start watching your kid wrestle it in HS, then go on to compete on cadet and junior duals, fargo, etc and actually place-you will be hooked.

ducky; my assertion that it's supposed to be wrestled from the feet might not have been explained well but I was in "defense-mode" - the level of these guys is just so superior that it's goig to be pretty hard to catch someone out of position- so yes, most of the scoring happens in parterre, or in defending and not being turned-so you will see lots of 01, 1-0, etc- but when I hear wrestling fans assert that they are stalling, and not doing anything ? makes me crazy-
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 6 2012, 08:47 PM.
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Iowan@heart
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In order for any sport to be considered for the Olympics it has to be practiced in 65 countries. As far as folkstyle is concerned, there is 1 country and maybe a few overseas army bases.
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duckychavez
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Tiny Tornado
Aug 6 2012, 08:35 PM
my son chose greco as his favorite many years ago, before he was even a cadet- so as his mom I started paying more attention to the rules- then of course they changed the rules, more than once-agreed, that hasn't helped the casual fan understand it better- all I can say is, if you start watching your kid wrestle it in HS, then go on to compete on cadet and junior duals, fargo, etc and actually place-you will be hooked.

ducky; my assertion that it's supposed to be wrestled from the feet might not have been explained well but I was in "defense-mode" - the level of these guys is just so superior that it's goig to be pretty hard to catch someone out of position- so yes, most of the scoring happens in parterre, or in defending and not being turned-so you will see lots of 01, 1-0, etc- but when I hear wrestling fans assert that they are stalling, and not doing anything ? makes me crazy-
There are a couple guys posting on themat.com who used to love greco and participated in it for many years, but now hate it due to the rule changes. They claim it no longer resembles the sport they used to love.
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Tiny Tornado
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I don't disagree that it's changed, and sometimes not for the better- I'm also reasonably sure there will be more changes as soon as this oylmpic cycle is complete- I'm just hoping and praying it's still an olympic sport in Rio in four more years, as my son has committed himself to training for at least one more cycle- but regardless, it will still remain my favorite, changes and all- B)

EDIT: great point, Iowan-

I am somewhat reluctant to criticize other wrestling fans, but I will add this; I read some of the comments on themat.com forum, and what I am getting is this; "I tuned into the Olympics to watch some wrestling, and I didn't like what I saw....." so I suspect that they ONLY watch Greco every FOUR YEARS - so I take their opinion with a grain of salt and probably not put as much stock into their opinion, as I consider them only "part-time" fans of international wrestling-
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 7 2012, 04:28 PM.
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Iowan@heart
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duckychavez
Aug 7 2012, 12:04 PM
There are a couple guys posting on themat.com who used to love greco and participated in it for many years, but now hate it due to the rule changes. They claim it no longer resembles the sport they used to love.
Greco has gone through a number of drastic iterations in the last 40 years. The golden years were when throws and risk were emphasized but there have also been a few periods where the main goal was to do as little as possible.

Oddly, it's greco on the mat that has changed the least over the years. A good gut still wins a lot of matches and always has.
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ivanputzke
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It's a joke that at the Olympic level you have only two minute periods. That in and of itself lends to wrestlers not taking risks. I always thought that the Americans were in better shape, but now you can't even use that to your advantage. Change it to 3- three minute periods most points wins. You will see action then.
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