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Complaints about Freestlye and Greco; It will never be Folkstyle
Topic Started: May 1 2013, 12:43 AM (4,399 Views)
J Nalan
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goTigersgo
May 23 2013, 08:04 AM
I really like Foley's idea of having a country vs. country takedown tournament, it could be watched, understood, and enjoyed by the casual fan.

I think this was the impetus behind FIFA approving Beach Wrestling. It's a basically a takedown tournament that requires no mats or special equipment. Simple to watch and easy to understand by almost anyone.
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Flurry
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I enjoy all wrestling – Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle. I believe that Folkstyle is easiest to understand and this is part of the reason it is so fun to watch. I know a couple of people who never wrestled and they cannot bear to watch a freestyle match, but they do enjoy watching folkstyle wrestling.

Every style has its own pros/cons and every person has their own personal preferences.
It seems that those who feel so strongly about one style or the other always have to point out what they dislike so much about the other style.

Most of the world really loves soccer but it isn’t as popular in the United States. The United States seems to enjoy Folkstyle wrestling best while the rest of the world enjoys Freestyle and Greco. Who is right or wrong ? Neither. Do we really need to argue ? The number of participants & fans clearly shows that the majority in the United States prefer Folkstyle. Doesn’t make it right or wrong just goes to show what we prefer.
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CropDuster
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Thedudeabides,
I don't really know what hairs I split. I guess I just don't find mat wrestling in folkstyle incredibly interesting (much as you find FS/GR mat wrestling to be "laying on your belly"). If I were you, I would take a small portion of time out to watch the new FS/GR rules in action at the World Team Trials.

Also, under the new rules, takedowns are worth 2 in freestyle.

EDIT: If the refs hadn't kinda muffed up in the NYC Rumble on the Rails, it could have been a cool dual format. I wish more teams would engage in duals, internationally. I can concede that point.
Edited by CropDuster, May 23 2013, 10:04 AM.
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Tiny Tornado
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Tiny Tornado
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I'm sick to my stomach right now, at the way some US wrestling fans are willing to throw Greco
out in order to save their precious freestyle- it makes me sick. It's like a father deciding he'll keep
the favorite son and slaying the other- there should be no place for it. So much for sticking together
to Save Olympic Wrestling- I for one will not be sending in any donations or buying any tshirts if it
means I'm only saving freestylers.
Edited by Tiny Tornado, May 23 2013, 12:33 PM.
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mndak
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CropDuster
May 22 2013, 08:12 PM
Dude... (I'm not about to drag out that long quote session, any longer)
If you've ever wrestled against someone actually trying to score on top, in parterre, I'm just not going to be able to take you seriously. I would rather watch two wrestlers be stood up to actually engage in combat instead of someone riding solely to gain a minute's worth of time on top for a measly point (er wrestler trying to do the same thing), worth exactly one half of a blast double, low single, or a fifth of a throw to your back with a hold. Very few collegiate wrestlers actually ride to turn an opponent, but rather ride for the sake of wearing a guy out and getting a point. In the international styles, they'd rather see action and watch them wear each other out in the neutral position. I would love to see a match with two quality wrestlers that you saw a ton of action in mat wrestling (folkstyle). It's incredibly more often in the international styles (in neutral), and I think these new rules will make it even more apparent.
You are dead wrong! Every college wrestlers' goal is to turn the opponent to their back! What happens is the bottom wrestler is able to defend (just like parre tarre) and the top man uses angles to keep the bottom man off balance. Since the bottom man is tougher to turn in college you see more tilts looking for back points than pinning combinations as you would see in highschool. If the top man cannot turn the opponent he ussually let's him go and gets his measly (well earned) 1 point at the end of the match. This measly point quite often decides the outcome of the match.

Riding is an art just like parre tarre. Neither one is better than the other, they are just different forms of wrestling.
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CropDuster
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mndak
May 23 2013, 03:00 PM
CropDuster
May 22 2013, 08:12 PM
Dude... (I'm not about to drag out that long quote session, any longer)
If you've ever wrestled against someone actually trying to score on top, in parterre, I'm just not going to be able to take you seriously. I would rather watch two wrestlers be stood up to actually engage in combat instead of someone riding solely to gain a minute's worth of time on top for a measly point (er wrestler trying to do the same thing), worth exactly one half of a blast double, low single, or a fifth of a throw to your back with a hold. Very few collegiate wrestlers actually ride to turn an opponent, but rather ride for the sake of wearing a guy out and getting a point. In the international styles, they'd rather see action and watch them wear each other out in the neutral position. I would love to see a match with two quality wrestlers that you saw a ton of action in mat wrestling (folkstyle). It's incredibly more often in the international styles (in neutral), and I think these new rules will make it even more apparent.
You are dead wrong! Every college wrestlers' goal is to turn the opponent to their back! What happens is the bottom wrestler is able to defend (just like parre tarre) and the top man uses angles to keep the bottom man off balance. Since the bottom man is tougher to turn in college you see more tilts looking for back points than pinning combinations as you would see in highschool. If the top man cannot turn the opponent he ussually let's him go and gets his measly (well earned) 1 point at the end of the match. This measly point quite often decides the outcome of the match.

Riding is an art just like parre tarre. Neither one is better than the other, they are just different forms of wrestling.
I'm not "dead wrong", I've had collegiate wrestlers tell me that they legitimately ride to get their point in most instances. Is that all wrestlers? Obviously not. But to say I'm "dead wrong" is sorta far.

Also, giving someone a point for simply staying in a position (top in folkstyle) is still stupid to me. You're not going to change my mind. That's cool though.

Tiny, don't let the internet world move ya that much. I highly doubt anyone in power is about to throw Greco to the wolves, in lieu of keeping freestyle. Just as our thoughts, they are simply internet postings. The powers that be didn't help themselves, however, with the 3 matches in Greco at Rumble on the Rails. One ended on 4 cautions, the next on an "attempted throw" or "lift" (either way, I thought it was stupid), and Holm's match just wasn't interesting. This is coming from an avid greco supporter. There are too many nations that believe in it to let it die.
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Tiny Tornado
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Thanks, that does me feel just a bit better - but not much. :-/
I just find it sad when the wrestling family turns on one another

See, I found Holm's match very interesting, because knowing he's a good thrower, I was waiting for it-
It didnt happen, but knowing the potential was there kept me interested.

Ive come to realize that I cannot make people interested in Greco so I dont even try anymore-my entire
family understands the rules just fine, and we will continue to watch and appreciate the subtle nuances
of not being turned while "laying on one's belly" ^o)
Edited by Tiny Tornado, May 23 2013, 04:18 PM.
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Sharkey
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Tiny Tornado
May 23 2013, 04:09 PM

Ive come to realize that I cannot make people interested i Greco so I dont even try anymore-my entire
family understands the rules just fine, and we will continue to watch and appreciate the subtle nuances
of not being turned while "laying on one's belly" ^o)
Nice try, but there is no way you are going to convince any of us that you don't care. You've got way too much passion for that. Be proud. If anything, I worry that you care too much, not too little. Life's too short to get excited about what someone on the internet thinks. Post, have fun, enjoy the conversation, but when you find yourself getting upset and angry, just walk away from the keyboard or go "lay on your belly". It's not worth the stress.
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Tiny Tornado
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Sharkey,

You have a point, getting upset over things spoken by anonymous strangers is pretty silly, right ? :$

There are actually many forum posters on here, besides myself , who could stand to listen to that advice :P



Good luck to all of Mn Storm and the USOEC boys down in Akron this weekend - wish I was there to see
the new rules in action
Edited by Tiny Tornado, May 23 2013, 07:38 PM.
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dadfinger
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Go Bluejackets!
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Sharkey
May 23 2013, 04:25 PM
Tiny Tornado
May 23 2013, 04:09 PM

Ive come to realize that I cannot make people interested i Greco so I dont even try anymore-my entire
family understands the rules just fine, and we will continue to watch and appreciate the subtle nuances
of not being turned while "laying on one's belly" ^o)
Nice try, but there is no way you are going to convince any of us that you don't care. You've got way too much passion for that. Be proud. If anything, I worry that you care too much, not too little. Life's too short to get excited about what someone on the internet thinks. Post, have fun, enjoy the conversation, but when you find yourself getting upset and angry, just walk away from the keyboard or go "lay on your belly". It's not worth the stress.
I HATE Greco and Whoppers!
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mndak
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CropDuster
May 23 2013, 03:46 PM
mndak
May 23 2013, 03:00 PM
CropDuster
May 22 2013, 08:12 PM
Dude... (I'm not about to drag out that long quote session, any longer)
If you've ever wrestled against someone actually trying to score on top, in parterre, I'm just not going to be able to take you seriously. I would rather watch two wrestlers be stood up to actually engage in combat instead of someone riding solely to gain a minute's worth of time on top for a measly point (er wrestler trying to do the same thing), worth exactly one half of a blast double, low single, or a fifth of a throw to your back with a hold. Very few collegiate wrestlers actually ride to turn an opponent, but rather ride for the sake of wearing a guy out and getting a point. In the international styles, they'd rather see action and watch them wear each other out in the neutral position. I would love to see a match with two quality wrestlers that you saw a ton of action in mat wrestling (folkstyle). It's incredibly more often in the international styles (in neutral), and I think these new rules will make it even more apparent.
You are dead wrong! Every college wrestlers' goal is to turn the opponent to their back! What happens is the bottom wrestler is able to defend (just like parre tarre) and the top man uses angles to keep the bottom man off balance. Since the bottom man is tougher to turn in college you see more tilts looking for back points than pinning combinations as you would see in highschool. If the top man cannot turn the opponent he ussually let's him go and gets his measly (well earned) 1 point at the end of the match. This measly point quite often decides the outcome of the match.

Riding is an art just like parre tarre. Neither one is better than the other, they are just different forms of wrestling.
I'm not "dead wrong", I've had collegiate wrestlers tell me that they legitimately ride to get their point in most instances. Is that all wrestlers? Obviously not. But to say I'm "dead wrong" is sorta far.

Also, giving someone a point for simply staying in a position (top in folkstyle) is still stupid to me. You're not going to change my mind. That's cool though.

Tiny, don't let the internet world move ya that much. I highly doubt anyone in power is about to throw Greco to the wolves, in lieu of keeping freestyle. Just as our thoughts, they are simply internet postings. The powers that be didn't help themselves, however, with the 3 matches in Greco at Rumble on the Rails. One ended on 4 cautions, the next on an "attempted throw" or "lift" (either way, I thought it was stupid), and Holm's match just wasn't interesting. This is coming from an avid greco supporter. There are too many nations that believe in it to let it die.
You are dead wrong to say "very few college wrestlers ride to actually turn their opponents". Last time I checked the goal of wrestling is to takedown, turn, and pin your opponent! You do not see many falls in college wrestling because it is extremly difficult to do, but the goal on top is to get your riding time and try to turn and pin your opponent!

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