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| 2 day team tournament rule interp; Could affect teams decisions for bumping kids | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 2 2014, 07:51 AM (1,587 Views) | |
| WrestlingOfficial | Dec 2 2014, 07:51 AM Post #1 |
Super Fan
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This new rule interp has been handed down by NFHS and could affect tournaments like the clash and the bemidji dual tournament. This is only for 2 day team tournaments. * 11.1.4 SITUATION B: In a two-day team advancement tournament that does not evolve into an individually bracketed tournament and/or does not reward individual accomplishments, the coach plans to use Wrestler A on the first day of competition and Wrestler B on the second day in the 106-pound weight class. Since Wrestler B will not compete on day 1 but only on day 2, is it permissible for Wrestler B to weigh-in only on day 2? RULING: No. For a wrestler to be eligible to compete on the second day of a tournament, he/she must have made weight the first day of the tournament and then must make weight the second day. Wrestler A, who is not competing the second day, would not have to make weight the second day of a team advancement tournament. COMMENT: All wrestlers must weigh-in each day of the multiple-day event and they must weigh in at the same weight class each day of the event. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. * 11.1.4 SITUATION C: In a two-day team advancement tournament that does not evolve into an individually bracketed tournament and/or does not reward individual accomplishments, the coach plans to use Wrestler A in the 113-pound weight class the first day of competition and in the 120-pound weight class the second day of competition. Can Wrestler A weigh-in at the 113-pound weight class the first day and weigh-in at the 120-pound weight class the second day? RULING: No. A wrestler must weigh-in in the same weight class each day of a multiple-day tournament. However, in this type of tournament, once Wrestler A made weight the second day at the 113-pound weight class, it would be permissible for Wrestler A to wrestle in the 120-pound weight class. COMMENT: All wrestlers must weigh-in each day of the multiple-day event and they must weigh-in at the same weight class each day of the event. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. In this situation, the wrestler is disqualified for the second day’s competition because he has not made weight. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team-advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. If he does not make weight for the 120# weight class he cannot compete at any weight class on day two. This change to avoid any confusion as to what weight class the wrestler may compete in on day 2. If he were allowed to weigh-in at 126#, there could be confusion that he is eligible for 126# or 132# on day 2, which could allow him to compete in 3 different weight classes in the same event. |
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| Iowan@heart | Dec 2 2014, 09:31 AM Post #2 |
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Fantastic
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This will be a big change for 2-day dual tournaments. I know the Clash organizing committee discussed this, but I think they thought that an overweight 113 lber on day two would be able to compete in the 120 lb class only. Being disqualified is a huge change. |
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| KC22 | Dec 5 2014, 10:34 AM Post #3 |
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Wrestling Fan
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OK I may be reading way to deep into this, but I have to ask the question. How does this effect the team section tournaments that are held with quarterfinals on Tuesday and the Final Four on Friday? You are wrestling in the same tournament but on two different days that are not back to back. |
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| WrestlingOfficial | Dec 5 2014, 10:28 PM Post #4 |
Super Fan
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The high school league treats each round as a new event not same tournament. Even each round of state is treated that way. So this rule has no effect for sections or state |
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| Iowan@heart | Feb 12 2015, 11:53 AM Post #5 |
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Fantastic
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There is renewed discussion on this topic. Rod (or any ref) - have you seen a clarification that indicates that weight allowances for multiple day tournaments should not be used to determine if a wrestler is too light for his/her weight class? Basically the way it was interpreted at the Clash was that a wrestler could weight exactly 173 on both days and would be DQ'd from the tournament the second day for qualifying for 182 and 195 on the first day and 170 and the second day. Edited by Iowan@heart, Feb 12 2015, 11:55 AM.
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| WrestlingOfficial | Feb 12 2015, 01:05 PM Post #6 |
Super Fan
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If the weight class on day one is 170 + 2 making 170 lb weight class 172 then he must weigh 173 or more to wrestle 182 and 195. Then on the 2nd day the new weight class will be 170+3 or 173. So he must weigh 174 or more to wrestle 182 and 195. If he weighs in at 173 on 2nd day then he is disqualified from the tournament. Basically the 1st day weigh-in dictates the 2 weight classes you qualify for and they cannot change on the 2nd day (i.e. you cannot qualify for a lower weight class on the 2nd day) and in the above example weighing in at 173 on the 2nd day qualifies him for 170 which is now illegal and is disqualified. I hope that is what you were asking |
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| Iowan@heart | Feb 12 2015, 01:40 PM Post #7 |
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Fantastic
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Yes, that is exactly what I was asking. If a guy weighs exactly 173 both days, he is disqualified on day 2. Check out KodiakCoach's post on the Clash 13 thread. He's saying that he talked with the guy who wrote the rule (Joel Silverthorn) and that is not what was intended. He also cites case notes that seem to conflict with that interpretation. The case book states: That the wrestler qualified for the two weight classes on the first day AND is eligible for the same two weight classes the second day. He does not have to weigh above the adjusted second (or third) day weight allowance, therefore if he weighted 170.2 the second day he was still eligible for 182 and 195 (but not eligible for 170 by the new rule). Edited by Iowan@heart, Feb 12 2015, 01:44 PM.
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| WrestlingOfficial | Feb 12 2015, 09:32 PM Post #8 |
Super Fan
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First of all we don't get to make up the rules only enforce them as they are given to us by the NFHS. It is not uncommon for the case book to not be kept up to date when there are rules added. And it isn't uncommon for a rule to be presented to the rules committee one way but be implemented different then what the intended party wanted. Here is an email conversation with Alan Beste NFHS rules committee member. Rule 4-5-8 states "Any contestant failing to make weight during the weigh-in period shall be ineligible for that weight class. That contestant may wrestle in the weight class for which their actual weight qualifies the contestant." If wrester A weighs in at 120 lb on the first day of a two day dual meet tournament, he is qualified to wrestle at 120 and 126 lb for that tournament. If he fails to make weight at 121 lb the following day, is he; 1. Disqualified for not making weight, or 2. Can wrestle at only 126 lb on the second day, because he qualified for that weight class during weigh-ins on the first day of the tournament? *11.1.4 SITUATION B: In a two-day team advancement tournament that does not evolve into an individually bracketed tournament and/or does not reward individual accomplishments, the coach plans to use Wrestler A on the first day of competition and Wrestler B on the second day in the 106-pound weight class. Since Wrestler B will not compete on day 1 but only on day 2, is it permissible for Wrestler B to weigh-in only on day 2? RULING: No. For a wrestler to be eligible to compete on the second day of a tournament, he/she must have made weight the first day of the tournament and then must make weight the second day. Wrestler A, who is not competing the second day, would not have to make weight the second day of a team advancement tournament. COMMENT: All wrestlers must weigh-in each day of the multiple-day event and they must weigh in at the same weight class each day of the event. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. *11.1.4 SITUATION C: In a two-day team advancement tournament that does not evolve into an individually bracketed tournament and/or does not reward individual accomplishments, the coach plans to use Wrestler A in the 113-pound weight class the first day of competition and in the 120-pound weight class the second day of competition. Can Wrestler A weigh-in at the 113-pound weight class the first day and weigh-in at the 120-pound weight class the second day? RULING: No. A wrestler must weigh-in in the same weight class each day of a multiple-day tournament. However, in this type of tournament, once Wrestler A made weight the second day at the 113-pound weight class, it would be permissible for Wrestler A to wrestle in the 120-pound weight class. COMMENT: All wrestlers must weigh-in each day of the multiple-day event and they must weigh-in at the same weight class each day of the event. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. In this situation, the wrestler is disqualified for the second day’s competition because he has not made weight. A wrestler is only eligible for two weight classes during a multiple-day, team-advancement tournament, and those two weight classes are determined at the first day weigh-in and cannot change during the remainder of the event. If he does not make weight for the 120# weight class he cannot compete at any weight class on day two. This change to avoid any confusion as to what weight class the wrestler may compete in on day 2. If he were allowed to weigh-in at 126#, there could be confusion that he is eligible for 126# or 132# on day 2, which could allow him to compete in 3 different weight classes in the same event. Alan |
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| KodiakCoach | Feb 13 2015, 01:23 AM Post #9 |
Fantastic
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I agree with your quote and also your assessment of the rule. However, the difference is that the person did weight in properly for the weight class - the same weight class as the first day - that being 182. He DID make weight for the 182 pound weight class. However, because he was under the minimum, he is no longer (unless you apply 4.5.5 - B which clearly addresses an individual who is weighs in under the weight class) to wrestle the higher of the two weight classes. In the Clash's case, he did make weight in at the fist day's weight class (182) but was under and therefore (possibly) unable to move up to the higher weight class. Of course he is ineligible to wrestle at 170 because he didn't weigh in at 170 the first day. The rules question should have been: We know wrestler A is not eligible to wrestle 170 because he didn't make the weight class on day 1, but he is under the 170 second day weigh in allowance - is he still eligible to wrestle at 195? The weight class 182 should never have been in question. If he had been over weight (above the allowance for 182 then the decision that he was ineligible would be correct). |
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6:34 PM Jul 10