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Recruits!
Topic Started: Dec 31 2014, 07:48 PM (944,686 Views)
MNRodent
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SDGopherFan
Nov 30 2016, 10:51 AM
I agree we need to be more offensive. That was a reason Berg gave for choosing Penn State as well.
Berg is wrestling for the Gophers. He was at 149 vs SDSU.
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18576
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SDGopherFan
Nov 30 2016, 10:51 AM
I agree we need to be more offensive. That was a reason Berg gave for choosing Penn State as well.
What, does he think he would shoot and take people down and the coaching staff would bench him?

Just silly.
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18576
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I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
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Gonzaga1603
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NM
Edited by Gonzaga1603, Nov 30 2016, 01:15 PM.
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18576
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I don't think they "have" anything. When MN was winning it was not because of a "style" (in fact, we wrestled just like Iowa and it still works pretty well for them). Most often, a defensive "style" is due to being out-gunned both individually and as a team. Yes, there are exceptions so please don't list them. When MN was winning, they were winning because they had the best recruits. College sports are all about recruiting, period.
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JackBurton
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18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
Shooters mop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZbIOOpLuds
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grand marshall
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JackBurton
Nov 30 2016, 01:44 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
Shooters mop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZbIOOpLuds
Now thats some funny stuff right there...
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mndak
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JackBurton
Nov 30 2016, 01:44 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
Shooters mop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZbIOOpLuds
1-0 isnt just a motto, it is a way of life.
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sfn155
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18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
Edited by guillotine1, Nov 30 2016, 04:38 PM.
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SDGopherFan
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MNRodent - Berge committed to Penn State about a month ago. Surely you must know this :)
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Lloyd Christmas
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SDGopherFan
Nov 30 2016, 04:24 PM
MNRodent - Berge committed to Penn State about a month ago. Surely you must know this :)
He surely does along with anyone that has a wrestling interest in the state.

You wrote BERG. James Berg wrestles 149 for the Gophers.
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18576
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sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
I am not joking or denying anything. They (PSU and others) can wrestle more offensively because they CAN, they are BETTER.
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WrestleMe
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18576
Nov 30 2016, 06:39 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
I am not joking or denying anything. They (PSU and others) can wrestle more offensively because they CAN, they are BETTER.
Correct.
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8AJohnnie
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sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
This is just adding to 18576's point. Being offensive isn't just a decision or enforcing a philosophy. You have to get in better position than your opponent and create angles. That is not an easy thing to do especially on the top guys. The better the team gets, the better positioning we will have and more offensive the style will seem.

It is easy to say we need to be more offensive but that is not easy to execute.
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mndak
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sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
Every PSU interview has the athletes talking about competing against themselves to score more and more points. Carl has installed the culture of always improving, it's something every coach attempts but rarely reach the level at PSU.
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sfn155
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8AJohnnie
Nov 30 2016, 08:07 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
This is just adding to 18576's point. Being offensive isn't just a decision or enforcing a philosophy. You have to get in better position than your opponent and create angles. That is not an easy thing to do especially on the top guys. The better the team gets, the better positioning we will have and more offensive the style will seem.

It is easy to say we need to be more offensive but that is not easy to execute.
jfc

It seems like you a couple others are trying to disagree with me, but are actually making my point. The Gophers coaches are not very good at coaching the offensive style that the elite teams have right now. No one said it's easy. They clearly don't know how to instill it though. They need to bring in fresh blood whether Eggum stays on or not.

Then other people go and simplify it by saying they're more offensive just because they're better. Simply being a higher recruit doesn't equate to scoring lots of bonus points. Put all the top recruits on the same team with a mediocre coach. Do you think they'll be the same? How do you think they got so much better? Why aren't top 25 recruits Short and Wanzek putting up bonus on guys who weren't top 100 recruits?
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WrestleMe
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So, you're saying, since Short & Wanzek aren't the next Taylor & Ruth, that this clearly points to a historical deficiency in coaching wrestling at the U of Minny?
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Turd Bag
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JackBurton
Nov 30 2016, 01:44 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
Shooters mop!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZbIOOpLuds
Some of Flo's best stuff.
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18576
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sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 10:16 PM
8AJohnnie
Nov 30 2016, 08:07 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
This is just adding to 18576's point. Being offensive isn't just a decision or enforcing a philosophy. You have to get in better position than your opponent and create angles. That is not an easy thing to do especially on the top guys. The better the team gets, the better positioning we will have and more offensive the style will seem.

It is easy to say we need to be more offensive but that is not easy to execute.
jfc

It seems like you a couple others are trying to disagree with me, but are actually making my point. The Gophers coaches are not very good at coaching the offensive style that the elite teams have right now. No one said it's easy. They clearly don't know how to instill it though. They need to bring in fresh blood whether Eggum stays on or not.

Then other people go and simplify it by saying they're more offensive just because they're better. Simply being a higher recruit doesn't equate to scoring lots of bonus points. Put all the top recruits on the same team with a mediocre coach. Do you think they'll be the same? How do you think they got so much better? Why aren't top 25 recruits Short and Wanzek putting up bonus on guys who weren't top 100 recruits?
No, not making your point at all. Yes, if PSU's team was here in MN with our coaches they would be the same team with the same results.
The top three factors for college sports success are recruiting, recruiting, and recruiting.
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18576
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"Why aren't top 25 recruits Short and Wanzek putting up bonus on guys who weren't top 100 recruits?"

Maybe being designated a "Top 25" recruit isn't what you think it is.

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swampdonkey
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sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 10:16 PM
8AJohnnie
Nov 30 2016, 08:07 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
This is just adding to 18576's point. Being offensive isn't just a decision or enforcing a philosophy. You have to get in better position than your opponent and create angles. That is not an easy thing to do especially on the top guys. The better the team gets, the better positioning we will have and more offensive the style will seem.

It is easy to say we need to be more offensive but that is not easy to execute.
jfc

It seems like you a couple others are trying to disagree with me, but are actually making my point. The Gophers coaches are not very good at coaching the offensive style that the elite teams have right now. No one said it's easy. They clearly don't know how to instill it though. They need to bring in fresh blood whether Eggum stays on or not.

Then other people go and simplify it by saying they're more offensive just because they're better. Simply being a higher recruit doesn't equate to scoring lots of bonus points. Put all the top recruits on the same team with a mediocre coach. Do you think they'll be the same? How do you think they got so much better? Why aren't top 25 recruits Short and Wanzek putting up bonus on guys who weren't top 100 recruits?
As far as Eggum staying in the program, sounds like it's very likely. I don't typically "start rumors", and don't think this is but Eggum will be offered the job. Like it or not, he'll be getting the "Acting head coach" removed and will be head coach Eggum!!
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8AJohnnie
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Quote:
 
It seems like you a couple others are trying to disagree with me, but are actually making my point. The Gophers coaches are not very good at coaching the offensive style that the elite teams have right now. No one said it's easy. They clearly don't know how to instill it though.

Not making your point at all. It is not a stylistic issue. It has to do with lack of talent through recruiting and development. The development is not due to "a lack of enforcing an offensive style." More talented wrestlers get in position to score more points. When the gophers have had talent they have put up plenty of points. When Iowa and Ohio State were down, they were not putting up points. It is not that they had huge style changes. They got better recruits and developed them.

Quote:
 
They need to bring in fresh blood whether Eggum stays on or not.

Agree 100%

Quote:
 
Simply being a higher recruit doesn't equate to scoring lots of bonus points.

That is because they need to be developed and plenty of recruits don't pan out (even on the Iowa, tOsU and PSU's of the world)
Edited by 8AJohnnie, Dec 1 2016, 07:57 AM.
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Barou
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mndak
Nov 30 2016, 08:09 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
Every PSU interview has the athletes talking about competing against themselves to score more and more points. Carl has installed the culture of always improving, it's something every coach attempts but rarely reach the level at PSU.
You are spot on. Cael right now is at another level when it comes to recruiting. If MN and PSU are after the same kid, they will win every time (or close to it). He has created an almost perfect wrestling culture there. Even the advantage of keeping a kid in-state doesn't trump what that program has to offer. Even with all the top level talent that doesn't crack the line-up there doesn't seem to be any animosity within their program. Hate to say it but if they want Steveson, they'll get him.
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MNRodent
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Reasons why Penn St. is currently better then U of M in wrestling.
1. Sanderson can recruit.
2. Those he recruits are very good.

Reasons that have nothing to do with why Penn St. is better.
1. They have more fun.
2. They are coached to score more (better athletes score more, that's why they are better).
3. State of residence of athletes or coaches.
4. The color of their uniform.
5. MN coaches teaching a 2000's style.
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litewait
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Just a thought-do you think the Gophers are always waiting for the Perfect Shot instead of just going after what is there or creating other opportunities? I see hesitation in some of the guys & wonder why?
Or are they afraid of taking a Bad shot and get reprimanded for it??
Not sure if either of these scenario could be why they compete like they do.
Edited by litewait, Dec 1 2016, 10:53 AM.
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8AJohnnie
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litewait
Dec 1 2016, 10:52 AM
Just a thought-do you think the Gophers are always waiting for the Perfect Shot instead of just going after what is there or creating other opportunities? I see hesitation in some of the guys & wonder why?
Or are they afraid of taking a Bad shot and get reprimanded for it??
Not sure if either of these scenario could be why they compete like they do.
My guess is it is likely a lack of confidence. When you get countered enough times both in practice and in matches, it is easy to get gun shy.
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MISSION
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MNRodent
Dec 1 2016, 10:10 AM
Reasons why Penn St. is currently better then U of M in wrestling.
1. Sanderson can recruit.
2. Those he recruits are very good.

Reasons that have nothing to do with why Penn St. is better.
1. They have more fun.
2. They are coached to score more (better athletes score more, that's why they are better).
3. State of residence of athletes or coaches.
4. The color of their uniform.
5. MN coaches teaching a 2000's style.
Well that solves it. All coaches are equal….. All recruiters are not equal.

We all feel better when we say and believe that Penn State is better only because Cael is better at recruiting. We can all agree that coaching has absolutely nothing to do with their success. On that thought I suppose Cael could simply open the door to the wrestling room and let his wrestlers go at it. He recruited the best so their success is guaranteed.

I wonder when other programs will catch on? There is no reason to have coaches anymore. Hire a good salesman and everything will work out from there.


Oh….. but you haven’t identified “why he can recruit?” and “why his recruits are very good?”
Can he recruit better because “they have more fun” ???
Can he recruit better because “his athletes score more” ?
Can he recruit better because the makeup of his coaches and athletes are not primarily from one state only?
Can he recruit better because he coaches a different style ?
Can he recruit better because his athletes and team have not recently been involved in a drug scandal?
Can he recruit better because he is a great listener and listens to his athletes?
Can he recruit better because he is a great communicator ?
Can he recruit better because athletes see they will get something from Cael and that program that they will not get somewhere else?
Can he recruit better because he is an outstanding teacher of technique?
Can he recruit better because he is a proven leader ?
Can he recruit better because of his own personal accomplishments as an athlete and coach ?
I could go on and on……
There are reasons why he is a great “recruiter”….. and most are probably because he is a great coach. If you are a great coach then “recruiting” becomes much easier.

Edited by MISSION, Dec 1 2016, 11:53 AM.
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Iowan@heart
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You all forget that one of the major complaints about Cael at ISU was that he couldn't recruit and he eventually left saying that it was too hard to recruit in the midwest. Quit using him as the poster boy for recruiting.
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Gonzaga1603
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18576
Nov 30 2016, 06:39 PM
sfn155
Nov 30 2016, 03:23 PM
18576
Nov 30 2016, 12:29 PM
I can just see practice now...... Eggum "did I see you taking a shot"? "Your scholarship is pulled!"
Eggum: "you got two takedowns in your last match, we want no more of that"..
It's easy to joke about and deny, but I think a lot of people miss the point. Of course the Gophers coach offense and want their guys to score points. I don't think anyone is actually saying they don't. The problem is that the Gophers coaches are not as good at enforcing that philosophy and instilling that technique as some other top end programs.

I don't understand why they don't have any coaches from outside the program for a different perspective. It's oddly incestuous.


Edit;
Coincidentally, here's a link to an article from just yesterday relating to this.

https://goo.gl/gyuatC
I am not joking or denying anything. They (PSU and others) can wrestle more offensively because they CAN, they are BETTER.
Thats not entirely true. Wrestlers have styles. Its not just that they are better so they are more offensive. Really good defense and a counter style offense exists in every combat sport.

Floyd Mayweather was BETTER than everyone he boxed. He was ultra-defensive and realized that was his best way to win fights.

I have no idea if the Gophers wrestle that way or what Eggum teaches but being defensive minded certainly exists in wrestling.
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Gonzaga1603
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18576
Dec 1 2016, 06:33 AM
"Why aren't top 25 recruits Short and Wanzek putting up bonus on guys who weren't top 100 recruits?"

Maybe being designated a "Top 25" recruit isn't what you think it is.

This is pretty convenient after you just said coaching means nothing and recruiting is all that matters.
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