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| Long Term vision of Youth Freestyle and Greco | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 1 2016, 09:07 AM (1,357 Views) | |
| viratas | Aug 1 2016, 09:07 AM Post #1 |
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Ray Brinzer and I are publish a series of articles "Reinventing Youth Wrestling" The second part came out today. Since MN is one of the best ran states I thought people may be interested in following the series. http://news.theopenmat.com/05-feature-articles/reinventing-youth-wrestling-part-ii-whats-wrong-fargo-tournament-not-city/58677 |
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| ERIC CREESE | Aug 1 2016, 03:32 PM Post #2 |
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good read. After reffing at Fargo many items you touched on makes sense and have been discussed in other circles. |
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| TGross | Aug 1 2016, 03:49 PM Post #3 |
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"Today, there may be no better example of how those groups innovated than the Disney Duals. Wrestlers get more matches for less money, in folkstyle, in a place they actually want to go." So by this premise dual tournaments should be promoted. But at almost every level that is not the case. Individual titles at every level from youth to high school to college and the Olympics the individual champions are promoted. Today, Fargo is just a big tournament, remaining so mostly by virtue of momentum. It does not attract the top competitors. What tournament draws the top talent better? Especially across the whole country. This year a lot of top end talent was at the OTC at a training camp, but I would guess a lot of those athletes had competed at Fargo in the past. Most of the Olympians competed at Fargo. I believe most NCAA AA's have competed at Fargo. Is there another tournament that draws more talent? Is there another tournament that draws as many coaches for recruiting? I do agree that there definitely could be improvements made in USA Wrestling especially at the regional level, but there are a lot of challenges to deal with. I guess we will see what is suggested. |
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| Tiny Tornado | Aug 1 2016, 05:25 PM Post #4 |
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Tiny Tornado
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I have only one problem with Disney Duals........it's folkstyle. :P
Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 1 2016, 05:26 PM.
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| viratas | Aug 2 2016, 04:16 AM Post #5 |
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I would like to make one thing clear. Neither Ray and I want to do away with the national championship. Nor do we want it to be folkstyle. We are releasing the way we are for a reason, kind of like a layered cake :) In the end, we have a vision that we think will improve the event, assure the best of the best are in it. We also believe, in our vision/plan we will present a system that helps grow the sport and strengthens the country internationally. Stay tuned |
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| Tiny Tornado | Aug 2 2016, 06:52 AM Post #6 |
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Tiny Tornado
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No event, no matter how big, or traditional, is beyond criticism or in need of some fixing- I'm enjoying reading the series.....thank you. We here in Mn are quite spoiled, as far as being able to attend the Cadet/Junior Natl Championships, virtually right next door...we have no idea of the hassle and the expense it costs for other states to attend every year....for Mn kids, it's not really that expensive, in comparison to others. And I'm not against folkstyle- just wish all folkstyle events, (Disney Duals included) would stay within folkstyle season, which is already too long as it is..... Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 2 2016, 06:55 AM.
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| CropDuster | Aug 2 2016, 11:07 AM Post #7 |
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I've enjoyed reading both articles, so far, and look forward to the future of it. A lot of great points are made. I love Fargo. It becomes a wrestling destination, over that week. The selfish part of me wants it to stay put, but for the sport, it might be best that it moves. |
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| viratas | Aug 5 2016, 04:52 AM Post #8 |
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Part III is now up and looks at where we want things to go: http://wp.me/p4nqqf-fhE |
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| Tiny Tornado | Aug 5 2016, 01:01 PM Post #9 |
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Tiny Tornado
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I like it, very much.....One thing you've probably already considered, but maybe didn't mention- none of this happens without the participation of specifically the Mat officials, as well as pairing officials...so having things around the same dates is a good idea.... |
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| CropDuster | Aug 5 2016, 03:21 PM Post #10 |
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I like the developmental idea, but the schedule of things kind of kills the grassroots part of it, i my opinion. Here, in MN, we don't have our state tournament until mid-May, and our opens through state calendar is already so short. We have like 7 weeks of opens, I'd guess. The nice part of it is that we have time to train from our regional until Nationals Camp/Fargo. If you determine the national tournament competitors in April, there's little incentive to keep training/wrestling. Now, if state still ran opens and competitions until mid-May, you might be able to keep kids wrestling until then, I suppose. At least in our club, Fargo/Nationals are the end-goal. We compete in opens, state, and regionals to get mat-time and compete, but Fargo Camp and the tournament are the overall end to our season. We don't keep everybody all the way from late March til July, but it gives kids a reason to keep rolling. With this setup, numbers would probably decimate even earlier. I know someone up north did a dual tournament in our state last spring. I'd like the schedule to stay how it is, currently, but have a couple dual tournaments between Northern Plains and Fargo/Nationals. This would allow coaches to match-up wrestlers (or determine using HS weights, regardless of "cadet/schoolboy/junior) and get 3-4 good matches on a Saturday or Sunday. This is good for development, and keeps kids sharp that are preparing for Cadet/JR/SB Duals and Fargo. It might seem like I'm nit-picking a minor point in your idea. I think the developmental part and literally everything else is awesome... I just think the timing needs adjusting in order to maximize numbers and participation at all ability levels in order to help all athletes stay motivated to train/compete. |
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| Tiny Tornado | Aug 5 2016, 07:51 PM Post #11 |
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Tiny Tornado
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I hadn't noticed the schedule showing the Regional tournaments for April- I'd have to agree with Crop- move those back to mid-June.....Mn cannot be the only state that doesnt finish folkstyle until March, and their State Freestyle tournament isn't until May.... Unless youre proposing, not waiting for Folk to be over, and having the freestyle/greco season overlap.....for many, that'd be a hard sell...... Edited by Tiny Tornado, Aug 5 2016, 07:54 PM.
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| Unit | Aug 6 2016, 09:57 AM Post #12 |
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Fantastic
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Some how we need to implement Freestyles fast moving pace scoring and stalling into the H.S. and college world. Make it more exciting. I enjoy the new rules in college on the edge of the mat. I have several more thoughts having wrestle the fargo, regional, national seniors and Trials. Nascar is currantly in a 8 year slump and is using SPORTS for ideas. We have icons in wrestling right now attracting lots of positive attentions, it time for that next move. Look at world and Olympic Trials, roughly 10 mam brackets small venue packed house. We get Thee top wrestlers in a central location wrestling Freco with good sized bracket. I also get give kids more opportunity to be exposed to the Team recipe for Freco. Edited by Unit, Aug 6 2016, 10:28 AM.
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| TGross | Aug 6 2016, 04:17 PM Post #13 |
Super Fan
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Advantages of Proposal: More incentive to attend regionals (nationals) More incentive to attend nationals (world team) Disadvantages of Proposal: Regional too close to folkstyle season - USA national folkstyle tournament is in April Regionals too long before nationals - following your proposal it seems like you are suggesting kids know there weight for nationals and maintain it for a couple months; some kids improve a lot in couple of months especially when they are just getting out of folkstyle; I know a freestyle champ who lost two matches at a local freestyle tournament, did not win the freestyle state championship and lost about half of his matches at cadet duals - he may not of made it through regionals. I believe there are a lot of things that make it hard to attract a ton of kids to freestyle and greco. Probably the biggest is folkstyle wrestling. It seems like the season can start in September and end in April for some even later. I think folkstyle can be demanding with a lot weigh ins and organized practices 5 - 6 days a week. There are so many national tournaments available, different training opportunities and camps. Many wrestlers (and parents) like having freedom after a long folkstyle year to only compete in a couple freestyle tournaments and then competing at Fargo. When I was a kid I don't remember MN/USA wrestling having folkstyle. Not exactly sure when they/USA Wrestling added it but I do think it is a great fund generator for international wrestling. There is a part of me that can't blame them. There are a ton of organization that will offer folkstyle events if USA Wrestling doesn't embrace it but I do think if the folstyle season was shorter it might help the internationals styles. Some kids and families will embrace all events with the current and proposed system. I am concerned that the new proposal may push fringe kids away as they may not be ready to be their best for regionals after a grueling season and may have spring sports. The other piece that would hurt participation is that many kids would know they do not qualify for nationals in April so they would stop practicing/competing. A lot of kids, use duals as a tuneup for nationals. If kids aren't going to nationals will they want to be on dual teams? Will their parents be as willing to pay the fees? Thanks for the articles. Hopefully they will foster conversations that will improve the sport. |
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| viratas | Aug 8 2016, 04:34 AM Post #14 |
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TGross and others, thanks for the feedback. Although we will be detailing each stage let me add a few things. As states in the article, nothing is set in stone, including the timing. We are very open to adjusting that. One of the reasons is to also allow for ample time for athletes who earn a spot on a tour team to be able to compete internationally. Keep the opinions coming. I will make sure Ray and I discuss them and do our best to address concerns within our breakdowns. |
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